Prematch commentary. ROBERT J. T. MORRIS: Chess is war. You might have seen that on the front page of a major newspaper yesterday. Of course, chess is just a game, okay, but it does represent a contest, and throughout history, in every contest, whether it's being man, in survival against his environment, or man against disease, or man against man, there's been a critical turning point when man has started to use tools. You can call them tools, weapons, perhaps, or technology, to change that game, or that contest. And in fact we're at a critical juncture in human history today, as man begins to use tools in contests of intelligence. And not only that, today, with Deep Blue, playing as it is, I think we've reached a coming of age for this technology, the technology in contests of intelligence. So I would like to introduce to you Monty Newborn, who is the chairman of the ACM chess committee. Monty is overseeing the match. MONTY NEWBORN: I'd like to welcome everybody here to an afternoon of one of the most exciting chess games that we've anticipated in the history of the game. The match right now stands at two points apiece, and there's two games to go, and it should be very exciting. We're about five minutes from the start of the game, and before I introduce the commentators, I just want to point out that the ACM, of which I am the chairman of the ACM Computer Chess Committee is providing commentary for this match and officiating. We have three great commentators who will bring your afternoon to life and answer your questions, and we'll have a few guests on stage. And I suspect you'll have a wonderful afternoon. In my capacity as chairman of the ACM Computer Chess Committee, I'd like to thank IBM for having us as the officiating organization, and it's been a real pleasure. My three commentators will come out on stage one at a time. The first one is Mike Valvo. Mike is an International Master. He's also one of the best blindfold chess players in the United States, can play ten to 15 people with his eyes closed, kill them all, including myself, and he's also been involved as a commentator and an arbiter at countless computer chess events over the years. Mike? MIKE VALVO: Thank you, Monty. By the way, chess is life, not war. MONTY NEWBORN: The second commentator is Maurice Ashley. Maurice is an International Master and New Yorker, a coach for one of the outstanding high school chess teams in the United States, and has tremendous experience in bringing chess matches to life. I think Maurice will make this sound like more of a football game by -- than a chess game by the time it's finished. Congratulations. Next, last, but not least, is Yasser Seirawan, who is three-times U.S. champion. This is a team of outstanding talent and I'm sure you're going to have a very enjoyable afternoon, and I wish the opponents upstairs the best of luck and I'm sure you'll all have a wonderful time. Maurice, I'll pass the mike to you. MIKE VALVO: We don't need a mike. MAURICE ASHLEY: Thank you. YASSER SEIRAWAN: Monty Newborn. MAURICE ASHLEY: Welcome to game five of the IBM Kasparov vs. Deep Blue rematch. Are you as excited as I am? The score is tied 2-2. Many people didn't believe that this would happen. Yasser Seirawan, I know you were one of them that felt like Kasparov was going to destroy Deep Blue in the rematch, but it seems as if that has not happened. This has captured the emergencytion -- imagination of the entire world, the New York Times, USA today, everybody is involved in this one, everyone wants a piece of the action, and I've never seen so much excitement in a chess match. Yaz, when has there ever been such excitement for a match? YASSER SEIRAWAN: Well, it's a very interesting match. The circumstance, once again. We saw it in Philadelphia 2-2. But in the Philadelphia match, there was a sense that Garry was just waiting, waiting to pounce. And he won the last two games. So, in a sense, it was anticlimactic, but there was a lot of tension in Philadelphia nonetheless. This match feels a lot different to me. It's the same circumstance, but the confidence isn't there that I had for Garry as in Philadelphia. And it's really getting nerve-wracking. Today, in my opinion, is the pivotal day. Garry won with white; he's lost with black; he drew with white; he drew with black. And it's very clear his match strategy is to press for the white pieces. He presses in an unorthodox kind of way, but I'm sure he doesn't want a draw today. I'm sure he feels he needs to win today to clench the match, at least a tie. And he doesn't want to draw today and go into the last round tomorrow with all the marbles at stake. MAURICE ASHLEY: And Kasparov has taken his seat. (Applause.) The watch has come off immediately which generally means that he's ready to get down to business. Kasparov with the white pieces, game five, similar conditions to last year, but as Yaz mentioned, game five last year, Kasparov had the black pieces and he was quite content to draw. And, Mike, what was the feeling? You were in the room as arbiter last year. What was the feeling in the room of game five last year and how is it different than this game? MIKE VALVO: Last year's game started off with what appeared to be a Petroff's Defense and Garry was a little bit surprised when they just moved very quickly and later on after the game he asked "Did you know what I was going to do? How did you know what I was going to do?" And it was very quickly a Scotch game, and Garry seemed very confident and in a commanding position he offered a draw knowing that he had white in the last game, and he didn't care what they did, and in a position where the computer was, to its own point of view, a little bit worse, they turned it down, continued to play, and Garry won the game. It was an overwhelming situation. They never recovered, Garry just crushed it like a peanut in the last game. MAURICE ASHLEY: This is a different story. Again Kasparov with the white pieces, the pressure is on him to win this game. He doesn't want to have to deal with the black pieces tomorrow. Having to win in order to win the match. As you know, Kasparov wants desperately to win this match. He is located now in the 35th floor of the Equitable Building. We should point out that we have an in-house audience but we also have many fans from all over the world watching live on WebTV, following live over the Internet. So we will keep them abreast of what's happening visually. They can't see, some of them cannot see it because they are only following on a chessboard, and we will be very descriptive at times of the events occurring in this program. Kasparov now sitting taking a photo opportunity as there are many, many members of the press who are interested in taking a picture. GK MOVE: 1 Nf3 MAURICE ASHLEY: Finally he has played a move. N if 3 is move one of game five. A very, very important game. And quickly Deep Blue -- DB MOVE: 1...d5 MAURICE ASHLEY: Deep Blue has responded d7-d5. This is continuing the same moves of the first game. GK MOVE: 2 d3 DB MOVE: 2...Bg4 GK MOVE: 3 Bg2 DB MOVE: 3...Nd7. GK MOVE: 4 h3 (missing). YASSER SEIRAWAN: Mike, you're the computer expert here, please explain to us. Throughout the entire matchbook, why we're laughing is throughout the entire four games of the match, the computer has jealously guarded its bishops. It has not voluntarily given up its bishops. DB MOVE: 4...Bxf 3 MIKE VALVO: Well, you look at a position like this, and you say black's got a real potential to get a large control of the center, and that may be worth -- more worthwhile to the computer to get that than to keep the bishop vs. the knight but I don't see how they're going to do that right away because as soon as the bishop captures the bipartisan the pawn on d5 is going to be hanging. And obviously Garry is going to do that -- I think. YASSER SEIRAWAN: I obviously agree with you. I expect Garry to play Bg2xf3, attacking the d5 pawn. Let's assume if you will Ng8-f6. This keeps the possibility of e7-e5, grabbing a big share of the center. And the position will very quickly transpose into themes of the King's Indian Defense, which Garry loves. We may see a move, for example, like castles. We are just trying to anticipate the further course of the game. e7-e5. d2-d3, and a move like c7-c6, blocking the long diagonal h1-a8, Nb1-d2. And we have a position which is similar, like I say, to a King's Indian, as well as a Pirc, and this is the kind of game that Garry would hope for where the opportunities of different strategic ideas all lie with white, with ideas like c2-c4, or e2-e4 or dropping back and keeping a defensive position. MAURICE ASHLEY: What do you think about Kasparov, having prepared this specific opening, he knew what happened in game one, but yet he has not moved. Is he so surprised, as we are, by the fact that the computer has given up the bishop for the knight just after two minutes' thought? Did he maybe not prepare for this particular variation thinking for sure the bishop was going to drop back? GK MOVE: 5 Bxf3 MAURICE ASHLEY: He has finally captured on f3 with the bishop. MIKE VALVO: Why did he take so long? Why did he consider the only other move, exf3? YASSER SEIRAWAN: No, this is very important. A chess Grandmaster, Garry Kasparov, for the last two days, has been comparing with his trainers and his computer specialists, and he sat there and he said to himself "I'm going to get this particular kind of opening, and this is the pattern that I'm going to get, this is how it's going to work, and then I'm going to beat the computer like a dog." So he comes to the game full of vim and vigor -- MAURICE ASHLEY: I should note -- DB MOVE: 5...c6 GK MOVE: 6 d3 YASSER SEIRAWAN: And this is where we're anticipating e7-e5 by the computer. But anyway, Garry comes to the game very resolute, he knows exactly what kind of opening he wants to get himself involved in, and then he comes and immediately he gets shaken by this capture of Bxf3. So he has to mentally, as well as emotionally, readjust himself to the fact that his opening preparation for this particular game has been thrown off balance. Right away, very early. So he has to re -- MIKE VALVO: "Re" something. YASSER SEIRAWAN: Regain control of the position, mentally and emotionally. MAURICE ASHLEY: Well, we see that the clocks show 1:55 each remaining for both sides. They have, for those of you who don't know, two hours to make 40 moves, for each side has a clock, a two-faced clock, two hours delegated on each side for the moves. We should also bring up to speed the people who are not able to see. Our audience was not able to see what's happening in house. We are three on stage. We have Indus three video monitors. To our left is a monitor that we keep a running tally of the position at all times. And it shows the current position on the board. Also it shows the moves right below it. Directly behind us we have a monitor showing the computer program, Fritz 4, who helps us with analysis, and we find it's partially biased to Deep Blue, but will -- but is often turncoat when it sees the tile to -- time to switch sides. And to our right is the monitor of the player area of the 35th floor again of the Equitable Building, where Kasparov is apparently pacing back and forth. Seems he is content with the situation. He often just paces. He has a dressing room that he could go to whenever he wishes, and there's a television monitor in the room so that he can always know what's happening in the game and when it is his turn to move. He's facing an opponent it seems but it is in fact the Deep Blue operator. I believe that is -- DB MOVE: 6...e6 MAURICE ASHLEY: -- one of the Deep Blue operators, who has now move e7-e6, Jed of jumping into the center with a double pawn thrust, this move, Yaz, was unanticipated by us on stage. YASSER SEIRAWAN: Most definitely. Many of the computer's algorithms describe to the computer that it's great to push pawns. We have seen that several of times in the match that Deep Blue has thrust its pawn shield protecting its king up the board. So computers love to push pawns. We hadn't anticipated this restrained move e7-e6. The only justification for capturing that knight on f3 was that it controlled the e5 square, and therefore we had anticipated e7-e5. I'd just like to explain one other thing. It's highly unusual fo Garry Kasparov in a top tournament or match would be playing in an enclosed room. It's far more appropriate that he should be on stage where we are and that we would be off in an enclosed room lecturing to an audience such as yourself. However, because the audience would affect Garry Kasparov and not Deep Blue, they're playing in a closed, quiet, sound-proof area where there's no possibility of Garry being disturbed. MAURICE ASHLEY: In fact n world champion matches, prior world champion matches for example between Karpov and Kasparov in Moscow, there would be an audience of 3,000 in the hall and these guys would be on stage and you could not tell those Russian fans to keep quiet because they wanted to shout out moves. (Audience laughter.) YASSER SEIRAWAN: He is absolutely right. In fact, in several world championship matches, the Russian audience, who is really, really dare their culture loves and embraces chess, not quite like ourselves, although yourselves are making believers of me, the Russian audience understood when a mistake was being made, and when a mistake had been made there was a whole rustling crowd in the audience and it almost seemed to alert the players. They go "Oh, thank you. Thank you very much. How about that? You blundered." Because the audience understood what was going on. Now let's go back to h3 where the bishop captured the knight. MAURICE ASHLEY: Okay. MIKE VALVO: From a computer's perspective if it played Bh5 the other move, if I was concerned -- it might be concerned about g4 Bg -- Bg67 -- it may have been concerned about the doubled pawn needlessly. That may be the reason why it was concerned, because of the pawn structure. YASSER SEIRAWAN: An interesting point by Mike. Obviously ux, Mike, you and I both know that Garry would not have pursued that variation, but it doesn't matter. It's what the computer thinks, or worries about, and that is potentially one of the reasons why it played the way it did. MIKE VALVO: I once played a match against a computer where we didn't let the computer have any book at all, and we just explore the opening lines and see what the computer would think. And there would be situations where the computer would notice, in its analysis, better moves for me, even though I didn't make them, and then the next time we played the same line, it remembered the prior game it wouldn't go into this because it knew I had a better move. And that's the consequence of something like this. The computer knows that Garry could do something, even if he never intended to do it it wouldn't go into it because it knew it could be done. MAURICE ASHLEY: Good point. Well, we do have a full afternoon for you. There are a number of guests we often bring on stage. Today we have that the IBM today, Matt who is the on the technical team, he won't give us too many secrets, but we'll try to get -- and later we'll also have woman's world champion Susan Polgar who was with us last time and she offered some tremendous insights into what was going on in the last game, and later we will have former U.S. -- actually two-time U.S. champion Grandmaster Patrick Wolff and he'll be on stage to offer his insights as to how the match is going -- how this game is going and how the match is going so far. We should also mention that we have some youngsters in the audience who have been invited here by IBM. I believe it is P.S. 116, P.S. 116. Let's give them a hand. (Applause.) May be a future Bobby Fischer in the crowd. Who is the best player in P. S. 116? Is there an agreement here? Okay, what's your name? Youngster right here. Give him the microphone. AUDIENCE MEMBER: Flynn. MAURICE ASHLEY: Flynn? AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Nods head.) AUDIENCE MEMBER: -- MAURICE ASHLEY: Who do you like in this match, Flynn, Kasparov or Deep Blue? AUDIENCE MEMBER: Kasparov. MAURICE ASHLEY: And what do you think about this game so far? What's your opinion on this game right now? YASSER SEIRAWAN: Has white got a better position or -- AUDIENCE MEMBER: It's even. MAURICE ASHLEY: Sorry? AUDIENCE MEMBER: It's even. Said with authority! It's even. MIKE VALVO: He's right. MAURICE ASHLEY: Good suggestion. Okay, Flynn, we'll be back over there asking some more opinions and if you see some more good moves, let us know, okay? YASSER SEIRAWAN: Also, throughout the afternoon we'll be asking for questions from members of the audience. There's a roving mike. We do point out, please take the time to accept the mike and then ask questions of any of us on stage, and we'll be very happy to -- MAURICE ASHLEY: What do you think about this position? It seems a couple of moves so far -- e6 -- just as I speak -- GK MOVE: 7 e4 MAURICE ASHLEY: A very aggressive move by Kasparov, saying he wants a piece of the space, a piece of the center, and he has even gotten up and left the stage to go his dressing room, shows his confidence in the situation. What do you think? YASSER SEIRAWAN: I share his confidence, let me tell you. Actually I'm a little bit surprised by the early commitment of e2-e4. Personally I, too, like the computer, have a prejudice for bishops. Bishops work well in an open position after lots of pawns have come off the board, so in a sense, in the early part of the game, the knight, in a closed position is oftentimes more valuable. But further you get into the endgame after more and more pawns come off the board, the bishops get better. So from a long-term perspective, I like white, or Kasparov's, chances better, but in the short-term, what Kasparov has to do is take a stand in the center and figure out a way of opening up his diagonal. And the move e2-e4 to my mind was a bit premature but not a bad move by any stretching of the imagination, but a bit premature. MIKE VALVO: There might be an advantage to this because Kasparov knows that the computer guesses his moves half of the time, 50 percent of the time. So he knows the computer is going to expect him to castle by playing a different move. The computer has to start from scratch rather than having a running start of about three minutes. MAURICE ASHLEY: And the computer thinks very, very quickly. That I think is an understatement. 200 million positions per second quickly. I had my students try to blink that first, and you should have seen the kids going... YASSER SEIRAWAN: A question, I think, in the audience, there is a young -- one of the young -- MIKE VALVO: Is there a question over here? YASSER SEIRAWAN: Yeah, I was sure there was one. AUDIENCE MEMBER: P I think he was just waving. YASSER SEIRAWAN: He got shy. MIKE VALVO: Everybody is hiding their hands all of the sudden. MAURICE ASHLEY: Well, Kasparov has returned to the board. And, Mike, the opening, again, we know in chess is so, so important. It's where the whole groundwork is laid for what's going to happen, the subsequent events in the middle game and beyond. I know that Deep Blue has some really good analysis -- a really good analysis team, some really good helpers. Joel Benjamin is one but the New York Times even reported that Grandmaster Miguel Illescas from Spain is helping him. MIKE VALVO: That seems to be the case. There are a lot of other Grandmasters around, and I wonder if they're also part of the team, too. YASSER SEIRAWAN: Do you think Deep Blue has a lot of secret helpers in the Grandmaster class? MIKE VALVO: I think he's got some helpers in there. MAURICE ASHLEY: How much can they help Deep Blue n actuality? What can they do -- 7...Ne5 MAURICE ASHLEY: Deep Blue has now played a highly unusual move before you get to your next point, Ne5. And this, to my eyes, is a very, very surprising move, Yaz. MIKE VALVO: A very bad one, too. (Audience laughter.) YASSER SEIRAWAN: You're the one who believes in the future here, Mike. MAURICE ASHLEY: What an unusual move, this kind of move. This breaks all principles. I tell my kids don't move the same piece twice in the opening. GK MOVE: 8 Bg2 MAURICE ASHLEY: Kasparov didn't need to think too long about that lemon and moved back Bg2. YASSER SEIRAWAN: I actually think Ne5 is a good move, and that's one of the reasons why I didn't like e2-e4, although I didn't mention that, of course -- MAURICE ASHLEY: You're keeping secrets from us, Yaz. You can't do that. YASSER SEIRAWAN: If you just look at the position two moves ago from Deep Blue's perspective, we know that the computer has a prejudice for bishops. So we could assume that the computer might like to go after Garry's bishop with the move Nd5-E. And you're right, Maurice, as a teacher, the principle is not to move a piece that is already developed twice in the opening because you'll waste time. Garry, to preserve his bishop had to retreat it, and this is the position that Deep Blue was contemplating. Deep Blue is now contemplating d5xe4, giving Garry the choice. If Garry wants, he can capture the pawn on e4 with his bishop, but then he in turn has been moving his bishop back and forth, and then Deep Blue gets to say to itself, "Well, I want that bishop. I'll now play Ng8-f6, attacking the bishop and setting up NxB, and if you, white, really want to preserve the bishop you're going to have to move it again, and so I gain time. MIKE VALVO: Was that a great tap dance, or what? Wow. MAURICE ASHLEY: The bishop went to g2, to f3, back to e2. YASSER SEIRAWAN: He's spending time trying to keep his advantage of the two bishops. In this resulting position, you might say black has a fairly easy road to equality. The bishop would move to c5, Bf8-c5, and they're in development. Now, let's go back to the position at hand, that is to say, what Deep Blue is thinking about. Garry has another alternative. He could play after dxe4, we have a new variation. Garry could trade queens. Now, one of the things that we've seen in this match, and especially in game four, Garry had all of his attacking potential that he sought to exchange queens, even when he had this possibility of Qc7 going for the attack. So Garry may embrace the ending d5xe4 d3xe4 Qxd1+ Kxd1 O O+ and -- O O O+ and Ke2. In the endgame the king on e2 will be a good piece. This is what Deep Blue and Garry are probably looking at. DB MOVE: 8...didxe4. MAURICE ASHLEY: What we had anticipated has occurred. The exchange dxe4 has occurred, and Kasparov has his first big decision of the chess game, and the whole character of the game is about to change. Kasparov is bouncing in his chair, and he knows it's time to decide. If he plays Bg2 -- takes Bg2, he keeps queens on. Maybe he'll exchange queens, thinking it's best to play Deep Blue that way, play an endgame where computers have been known, Mike, to not be so good? MIKE VALVO: Yeah, it's an area where computers are probably at their worst, the endgame. They would be even worse off in the opening except that the openings are programmed into them from the start, so they usually don't wake up until about move 10 or 15 unless they're playing Garry, then they wake up about move three or four. MAURICE ASHLEY: Good point. And still Kasparov is thinking about this position, despite the fact that we've been eager, I mean eager, like a man from a mission, the moment he sees the opportunity to exchange queens, has done so in the blink of an eye. But here for some reason, he's really hesitant, and maybe he's not so confident after that position after the exchange of queens, Yaz. YASSER SEIRAWAN: Possibly, but at the same time I do expect Garry to go into this endgame for all of the reasons that Mike stated. His prematch strategy clearly was to trade queens, go in the endgame and do the best he can in the endgame. We had a very interesting endgame in game four. How many of our audience was here for game four. GK MOVE: 9 Bxe4 MAURICE ASHLEY: And he has avoided this endgame! He has decided to avoid the endgame, by playing Bxe4, this is the Garry we know, and have come to love, I might say. Garry Kasparov is know worldwide for his attacking ability, for the fact that when he's got queens on, he's got two bishops, he usually just rips the opponent's position apart, and clearly right here he's saying, "All right, kid gloves off, it's time to rock 'n' roll, let's get busy. And now Kasparov, Bxe4, this bishop having moved already, is it four times in the opening -- Bg2 was one, takes on 1960 3 was two, back to g2, and now e4, and seemingly to move a fifth after the natural move Nf6, that Kasparov has decided that the natural pent-up power of his two bishops is going to be more than enough value for this waste of time. So, Yaz, an aggressive posture by Kasparov. This is not some kind of passive move. YASSER SEIRAWAN: Well, I had expected, all of Garry's obvious prematch strategy, to trade queens, with the move dxe 4. DB MOVE: 9...Ngf6 MAURICE ASHLEY: The natural move, developing the knight and attacking the bishop on e4. YASSER SEIRAWAN: Garry is going to have to retreat the bishop on e4. There's no -- GK MOVE: 10 Bg2 MAURICE ASHLEY: He has dropped back. YASSER SEIRAWAN: We have now predicted the move Bf8-c5 by Deep Blue. One of the ideas in the opening is to castle early, protect your king, but also to bring your pieces to active squares. When we say active squares, the definition is if you bisect the chessboard into two halves, right across from the a4 rank, then you say 32 squares belong to white, 32 squares belong to black, and to activate our pieces we need to control more of the opponent's territory than the opponent controls of ours. So the bishop on f8 clearly needs to move but where to move it. e7, d6, b4 with check. Of which those choices -- which of those choices? Bb4+ is attractive and Bc5 are the two most attractive squares because they control white's territory. We're anticipating one of these two moves. And quite frankly I think Deep Blue has a fine position, although, long-term, we know the bishop on g2 has no counterpart and is very meaningful. In the short-term, the computer has good development. MAURICE ASHLEY: Well, Mike, you and I didn't like the Ne7-e5 move. It seems to have turned out okay. MIKE VALVO: That was a knee jerk reaction by me, but now is seems Bb4 check is a good move, because c3 is not possible, because of Nxd3. MAURICE ASHLEY: Let's look at that. Bb4+. And the normal move here would be to gain a tempo with c2-c3. AUDIENCE MEMBER: Not every check is a good one but there is the possibility in that case of Nxd3+ and black would just be up a pawn. For example, after the move Ke2 attacking the knight on d3 and now the bishop is also under attack. Black could play a simple move like Nxc1 check, and then Kasparov could resign pretty soon. YASSER SEIRAWAN: He snapped off a pawn. So by the way on that previous variation, if you notice the red toolbar there, Maurice, you do a better job than I explain what Fritz is up to. We use Fritz as a tool here on stage, and the idea is that every position has only a select number of legal moves. If you look down into the lower part of the screen in the center -- DB MOVE: 10...Bb4+ MAURICE ASHLEY: Fritz has decide to do play the move Bb4+ to test Kasparov's response. I think Fritz -- excuse me -- Deep Blue has played this move. Deep Blue has played Bb4+. And I doubt Deep Blue thinks Kasparov is going to play c3. GK MOVE: 11 Nd2 MAURICE ASHLEY: Kasparov has played the much more natural move bishop to -- AUDIENCE MEMBER: No! Knight. MAURICE ASHLEY: Knight b1-d2 has been played. YASSER SEIRAWAN: Blocking the check. And so here we have it. On the lower screen there, we see that after the move -- boy, it's moving around -- right now, Deep Blue has 48 possible moves. 48 possible legal moves. That's in that lower screen there. It's going through each and every one of those possibilities, and it's going to select what it believes to be the best choice out of the 48 possible. Right next to it is you see the depth chart. What that means is that -- actually, before I make a fool of myself, Mike, why don't you tell the audience what the depth chart means. MIKE VALVO: Let's way till Frederic comes back. I'm not really sure what that means. YASSER SEIRAWAN: Okay, I'll take a guess. MIKE VALVO: It's supposed to mean -- YASSER SEIRAWAN: The number of ply. MIKE VALVO: The number of ply that it's going into but he said something which doesn't quite make sense to me here. I don't know why there's two numbers. Usually it would say 9, which would mean 9 ply. YASSER SEIRAWAN: 10 of 10 ply. What a ply refers to as a half move. So if I make a move and my opponent responds, that's two ply. So what the computer is doing is analyzing every possible ply for five moves, five complete moves, or ten ply. Below that, you have a little toolbar, and the toolbar is a visual aid to say who's doing what to whom, who has the advantage in the view of Fritz. Red is for advantage for white. Green is for advantage to black. And, finally, above that you have a numerical value -- MAURICE ASHLEY: Actually green is white and red is black. YASSER SEIRAWAN: Just reverse everything I just said. And above that you have a numerical value. You have 38. What that means is that in this particular position, Fritz thinks that I believe white -- MAURICE ASHLEY: White. YASSER SEIRAWAN: -- is doing very well. MAURICE ASHLEY: Doing very nice. YASSER SEIRAWAN: Has 38 points of a pawn advantage. Pawn equals a hundred points. So it thinks 38 points. We do have a question in the aweience. DB MOVE: 11...h5. MAURICE ASHLEY: No! YASSER SEIRAWAN: h7-h5! Well, yeah. h7-h5? We've got to take a look at Garry now! YASSER SEIRAWAN: Garry is a happy camper! Who's been programming this machine? MAURICE ASHLEY: I mean we've seen some strange moves and we've seen some strange moves. That's a strange move! MIKE VALVO: I think I better go upstairs and see what's going on here. MAURICE ASHLEY: Okay, well, we will give Mike his well-timed break and he will go to the press room and get a few from the 49th floor, the Grandmasters, there are many, many Grandmasters all over the world on that floor, and Mike, a little reconnaissance mission for us. YASSER SEIRAWAN: Absolutely, from the computer scientist. IM Michael Valvo. MAURICE ASHLEY: All of us are shocked with the move h7-h5. Let me just catch my breath and get a question and then we'll get back to the action. YASSER SEIRAWAN: Yes, sir? AUDIENCE MEMBER: Just a comment. You were talking about the comment 10/10. The second number is the maximum ply including extensions. So, in other words, it might search to 10 ply and then it sees a forcing check line where it can check the opponent, say eight more ply, that would go to 18. In this case the deepest it's going is 32 ply. It's a special -- in some special situations. YASSER SEIRAWAN: So just to be clear that I understand you, the 10 -- the first number refers to all the possibilities up to ten plies. Fritz is analyzing all possible moves five moves ahead. But the 32 means that in one of its extensions is looking 16 moves deep? AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes. MAURICE ASHLEY: Thank you very much for that explanation. We do have a slight error on our screen to the left. It says move 10 was Bd4, when in fact it's Bb4+ Nd2 and h5. And I tell you, Yaz, some of the moves have been really strange. To my eyes, I was wondering, for example, before this, after Bb4+ Nd2, it seemed to me that after white castles at some point, let's say after h5 white were to castle, it seems to me white would be able to get in this c3 push without worrying about the d3 pawn and then an automatic d4 push because that pawn has protection, and black would be in a little bit of trouble, being pushed back with these center pawns. So this move Bb4 to my eyes is sort of monkey see check, monkey do check, by the way. GK MOVE: 12 Qe2 DB MOVE: 12...Qc7 MAURICE ASHLEY: Protecting the knight. Now it just seems, maybe I'm wrong, now it just seems as if c2-c3 can be played and then after some bishop move, let's say back to e7, d2-d4 can be played -- d3-d4, excuse me. And now this knight has to drop back. I don't know which square is best. Maybe this square is best, but it seems these pawns have moved up the board with tempo, control of the board has been assured by white by his central pawns. And I'm not really sure what this move h5 does. YASSER SEIRAWAN: Okay. Let's talk about that for a moment because this is the whole point of what IBM's concept is. You have this incredibly difficult task called chess. With so many possibilities, how on earth can we even get a computer to even play a decent game of chess? But how's this for a fascinating question? What if we can make a computer that by looking at all of these different chess moves, comes from a completely unconventional and is able to teach Grandmasters something about their game? Well, this would be shocking. A game that is centuries old, millenniums old, and to teach people something about their game of chess through unconventional means. What we have here is a perfect example of what IBM's programmers are trying to do. We can question, as humans, the judgment of Deep Blue. Because he's doing something that is completely unnatural to strong players, like Maurice and myself, we wouldn't consider these moves h7-h5. Now, what Deep Blue says to itself is, "Hey, this move seems to, c3, the moves d3-d4 are coming, pushing me pieces away. I've God to do something about my knight on e5. Let me figure out what I can do." And it says to itself, "Huh. How about that. White has a weak square f4. Of course, white does not have a weak square f4. And Deep Blue says that's the square I'm going off. This is what I'm going to do, folks. I'm going to play h7-h5. And I'm going to play h5-h4." So let's give Garry Kasparov a move. Let's give Garry Kasparov the move castles. New variation. Now we play the move h5-h4. After Garry plays g3-g4, bypassing the h-pawn, then Deep Blue says, "Aren't I brilliant? I now control the f4 square. I'll play Ne5-g6 and when Garry does something silly like c2-c3, well, then my bishop will drop back to d6 and I'll have played perfectly, I've got control of the f4 square." So this is the way Deep Blue is trying to solve its problems. What I had suggested the move Bc5, I thought that that was better than the move Bb4+ precisely because of the problems that the computer now faces, which is c3, attacking the bishop, and d4, attacking the knight. So this is what Garry is now thinking about. Is the move h5-h4 bothersome? And if it is, well, white can always play the move h3-h4. But then Deep Blue solves its problem in another way. It now says, "Oh, it's not the f4 square that's weak, it's the g4 square that's weak." MAURICE ASHLEY: Well, what if Kasparov tries to handle all of that and plays the variation beginning c2-c3, and after the bishop drops back, plays d4, and after the knight drops back, now plays your move, h4, and that knight didn't find the h4 square and didn't find the g4 square. In fact, it's found no square. What's the deal with that? YASSER SEIRAWAN: Then Garry would be better! (Audience laughter.) And the strategy wouldn't work. MAURICE ASHLEY: Well, that seems like a very simple variation for Kasparov to play. Maybe there's a response that we haven't noted, and I'm sure there are other moves we have not looked at. Deep Blue is looking at all the moves in a given position, but this has come as a surprise to Kasparov and he's going to work out exactly what he feels is the best way to deal with the situation, and I have to say, I'm very suspicious of the some of the moves Deep Blue has played. But as we've seen in so many games, Deep Blue has played some wacky looking moves? YASSER SEIRAWAN: Absolutely. And he's gotten away with it, too. MAURICE ASHLEY: And he's gotten away with it. This thing mixes it up like anybody. The game gets wild, game gets sharp, Deep Blue sacks is piece or a pawn, and then Kasparov gets confused -- YASSER SEIRAWAN: And then he gets angry. MAURICE ASHLEY: -- and we've seen that time and time again. Deep Blue has played some suspicious -- as far as we're concerned, the human side, strategical decisions, for its tactical ability, time and time again -- YASSER SEIRAWAN: Saving the game. MAURICE ASHLEY: -- turns out fine. YASSER SEIRAWAN: Absolutely. Throughout the match, three or four games, I think the match score is right, 2-2. But quite frankly Garry has had the edge in three out of the four games. And sometime the comput