THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JONATHAN MANN, INSIGHT (voice-over): West meets East and apologizes. John Paul II travels to the heart of the Orthodox world and asks for forgiveness.
(on camera): Hello, and welcome.
The Church of Rome has been called the Catholic Church for so long, the original meaning of the word "Catholic" is largely forgotten. It means "universal." But Christianity began to divide into Western and Eastern branches as early as the 5th century, and it split definitively in 1054.
In Greece today, that deep division 1,000 years old is being felt in visceral anger, anger many people feel simply because a Roman Catholic pope is in their midst. John Paul II, the first pope to visit since the rupture, has planned a short trip. But he carries a lot of history, and he's trying to make up for it - in Greece and on to Syria as well.
On our program today - John Paul II in Greece. CNN's Jim Bittermann joins us now from Athens. Jim?
JIM BITTERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jonathan, they say that timing is everything, and in this case, the Pope's timing and the Vatican's timing seem to be just about perfect. The Pope managed to pull off his visit here at a time when the government, the Greek government was looking to get a little bit of a boost from papal visit and when the church here, the Greek Orthodox Church, really couldn't say no.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): .said Pope John Paul II shows he does not just live history but directs it. And from the moment he disregarded the protests of some here and kissed Greek soil, it was clear the Pope was intent on leading 225 million Orthodox and one billion Catholic believers into a new era.
Where just two months ago there was such hostility even the papal spokesman believed such a trip unthinkable, now the Pope and Greek Archbishop Christodoulos were at least opening a dialogue. Their differences go back 1,000 years, when the Christian Church split into Eastern and Roman branches, and the pope's crusaders tried forcibly to bring the Orthodox back into the fold.
Eastern church leaders can count many other grievances over the centuries. Said Christodoulos, until now, there has not been heard even a single request for pardon. But then, just moments later, John Paul tried to make a clean breast of things by asking forgiveness for all sins of omission and commission by Roman Catholics against Orthodox believers.
It was a mea culpa that brought immediate applause from the Greek archbishop and his fellow churchmen, and later John Paul pleaded for an end to divisions among religions.
POPE JOHN PAUL II: The Catholic Church is irrevocably committed to the paths of unity. It's a holy (ph) church.
BITTERMANN: Later, the Greek Orthodox archbishop told reporters privately he was pleased with the way his meetings with the Pope had gone. "He has been very kind to us," Christodoulos said, "Now much work remains to be done."
Some of the work that has already been done became apparent as the sun was setting over Athens. On the very spot where the Bible says the Apostle Paul first preached the Christian gospel, the two church leaders shared a joint declaration on the Christian roots of Europe, condemning all recourse to violence, proselytism and fanaticism in the name of religion.
Threats of ultra-conservative Orthodox believers to disrupt the day- long show of unity never materialized.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(on camera): Now, Jonathan, this weekend, the Greek archbishop will be traveling to Moscow, where he'll meet with the patriarch of Russia, Alexei II (ph), and no doubt relay an assessment of the Pope's visit here - perhaps also laying the groundwork for one of John Paul's loftiest goals, and that is a visit by a Roman Catholic pontiff to the Orthodox heart of Russia.
Jonathan?
MANN: Jim, most places the Pope goes, he is received by enormous crowds of appreciative believers. What kind of reception is he getting there from Greeks?
BITTERMANN: Well, it was pretty interesting today. I really didn't expect that there would be a lot of people along the route as we came in from town. We are, after all, sort of at the edge of the Roman Catholic empire here. This is Orthodox territory. There is only about 200,000 Roman Catholics in this country, and about 150,000 of those are immigrants - Poles and Filipinos who live and work here. There is only about 50,000 Greek Roman Catholics.
But nonetheless, along the route, coming in from the airport, there were hundreds and thousands of people lining up. Now part of that maybe because the entire center of Athens was blocked off for the papal entourage. So a lot of people may have been drawn to the streets just out of sheer curiosity. Jonathan?
MANN: And yet, especially in the past few weeks, we've been hearing so much about anger - anger among ordinary people, but especially among priests and monks and people within the Orthodox Church. Why this anger?
BITTERMANN: Well, I think - I mean, a lot of it dissipated today, I think. We thought there were going to be some demonstrations here today that just never materialized. There was one very small demonstration this evening.
I think the anger results from more of what the training and the kind of learning that Greek Orthodox have received over the years. They grow up knowing the Roman Catholics as heretics, as somebody who believes something contrary to what they believe. The Pope is construed as the devil here and has been for many, many years.
Also, I should mention that the Roman Catholic Church is not officially recognized in Greece. Certainly there are Roman Catholic churches, but the church is not officially recognized. The only official religions outside of Orthodox are the Islamic religion and Judaism. So, as a matter of fact, it is almost - the religion has almost been banned here, and also there's another thing, too, that's peculiar to Greece, I think, and that is that the national identity is very much wrapped up with the Orthodox Church and has been over the centuries.
Jonathan.
MANN: Jim Bittermann in Athens. Thanks very much.
We have to take a break. More about the Vatican and the Orthodox Church when we come back. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MANN (voice-over): The scope of the Pope's declarations in Greece caught the Orthodox Church by surprise. Some gestures had been expected, but an apology for the sins of action and omission and talk of painful memories sent a strong signal. As one high-ranking Orthodox official put it, "We've been waiting for this for 950 years."
(on camera): Welcome back.
Pope John Paul has had a great deal to say during his short stay in Greece. But how will it alter the relationship between the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches? Robert Moynihan, editor of the monthly journal Inside The Vatican joins us now to talk about that.
Thanks so much for being with us. John Paul II has had a pontificate of firsts, of setting precedents. How does this visit to Greece compare, do you think?
ROBERT MOYNIHAN, EDITOR, INSIDE THE VATICAN: It is part of a long chain of important visits that he's made, and I think it's going very well so far. I'm not sure that anything dramatic will happen immediately. But I think the two things to remember are that the Pope made those remarks today, that the Greek Orthodox seemed to be receiving him with a certain amount of friendliness and that the Greek archbishop is now traveling to Moscow to talk about further possible meetings between the Pope of the West and the Eastern Orthodox churches.
MANN: Is this just more Vatican diplomacy, more diplomacy for an institution that has experienced centuries of it, or is there something more important here, do you think? Is this really big history for the Vatican?
MOYNIHAN: I think it is the central concern of this pope right now, and he's repeatedly said this during his pontificate that he would like Europe to breathe with two lungs and be restored, in a sense, to its Christian traditions - Catholic and Protestant in the West, Orthodox in the East and ecumenism that the Vatican espoused, starting with the Second Vatican Council in the 1960s and pushed forward by this pontiff. And with the decline and the fall of the Soviet Union opening up the Eastern parts of Europe is central to this pope's understanding of what he's doing, and I would like to point out that he himself personally represents the dilemma.
He is ethnically a Slav, coming from Poland, and at the same time, he is religiously and culturally Latin and Western because the Poles were evangelized from Rome. So he feels drawn to the East ethnically, and he feels that he can speak to the Orthodox and to the Slavs of the northern eastern part of Europe, and yet bring them back in communion with Rome.
And the whole history of Europe, in a sense, is a long nostalgia for Rome, united for a brief period, and attempts have repeatedly been made to restore that with varying success. And this pope is trying to do it on a spiritual level, but it will certainly have cultural, economic and political consequences if he succeeds.
MANN: How great is the suspicion associated with this effort? Is he being seen, do you think, in the Orthodox world as a man who is trying to bring a sincere message? Or is there still some sense that this is the Roman Catholic Church trying to spread its influence?
MOYNIHAN: I think both views are held, and they have reasons on - that they use to support both views. They are afraid of a duplicitous Western Vatican. At the same time, they're intrigued and impressed by the humanity of this pope, by his evident peacefulness. He isn't calling for crusades.
He said today they were irrevocably committed to dialogue. He probably concerns the more conservative Orthodox because he seems too liberal. He seems to open to the world, and it might seem strange from the Western perspective, but that's their concern, I think.
MANN: What about the apology? How much agonizing do you think went on inside the Pope's entourage among the people who are closest to him about what to say, what not to say? Was it an abject apology? Was it a complete apology? Or was it nuanced in a way that was important to Rome?
MOYNIHAN: Well, I think there are always nuances in these statements. I don't think the Vatican has claimed and apologized for responsibility for the sacking of Byzantium in 1204, and I don't think that they should or can, historically speaking. I think the Phoenicians (ph) were guiding an expedition to the East. It was supposed to go on a spiritual mission to Jerusalem, and it was sidetracked to a place that had more gold and silver.
And I don't know that the Pope controlled that. But he did say that the savagery of that attack, which was a savage attack and culturally devastating for the West, is to be regretted, is to be apologized for, to the extent that anyone could apologize for the past. And it was a gesture in that sense that was very profound and hadn't been made before on this official level and in such a place in Athens.
MANN: It is an important step. We're going to be talking about some more steps that the Pope has ahead. Robert Moynihan, we're going to ask you to stay with us. After the break, in the footsteps of Saint Paul. John Paul heads to Syria to mend more fences. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MANN (voice-over): Syria is proud of its interfaith coexistence. Muslims and Christians live and even pray side by side. The country's late president Hafez al-Assad was an Aloite (ph). But he tried to lead by example, attending both church and mosque.
(on camera): Welcome back.
When Pope John Paul II moves on to Syria from Greece, he will be stepping into more uncharted territory. He plans to become the first pontiff to enter a mosque. Here's CNN's Rula Amin from Damascus.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RULA AMIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For more than 1,300 years, five times a day, the call for prayers has echoed through this ancient city. Thousands of Muslims attend Friday noon prayers at the Ummayad mosque.
This spot in the heart of Damascus has been a place of worship for an estimated 4,000 years. It's not clear what came first - Damascus or this holy place. It was a place of worship for the Romans and the Greeks.
When the people of Damascus adopted Christianity, the temple became a church dedicated to John the Baptist. Later, it is believed his head was even brought here for burial. When Islam came to Damascus, the faithful followed tradition and prayed in the ruins of the huge ancient temple next to the church. For the next 70 years until 705, Christians and Muslims entered the same gate to worship the same god.
TALAL AQEELA, UMMAYAD MOSQUE EXPERT: So the citizens of Damascus, they entered from this side, and the Christian citizens went to the western part and the Muslims went to the eastern part. Here was the mosque, and over there was the church.
AMIN: During the peak of the Islamic Ummayad state, the Muslim Caliph Al-Walid (inaudible) demolished the church and built this mosque that has stood since.
AQEELA: He negotiated with the Christian patriarch, and he said I will give you another spot for your church, and I need this place to build. They did it by agreement, simple as that. Automatically, his state, his growing state, his magnificent state, and, well, he didn't build a palace for himself. But he built a mosque, huge mosque.
BISHOP IZIDOR BATIKHA: For us, it is the past. We don't think about that. It was the big cathedral of Damascus when the big community was here. Now we are a small community. It's enough for us small churches.
AMIN: The shrine containing the head of John the Baptist remains in the mosque, visited by both Christian and Muslim believers who see John the Baptist as one of the prophets. The Pope plans to visit this shrine. He also plans to meet with the leaders of the Muslim community here. It's not the first time this mosque has been used for such meetings.
AQEELA: The government was here. The Caliph was here. The meeting was here. The delegations who came from outside were - came here. And this is a place for praying and for meeting and for taking decision and for negotiation and for learning and for judgment.
AMIN: It was here for the first time a minaret was built specifically to call Muslims for prayers. At one time even the state treasury was at this mosque, set high for safety. A place to store treasures then, this place of worship remains a world treasure today.
Rula Amin, CNN, Damascus.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MANN: The glow may be dimming slightly, though, even before the Pope arrives. Questions have been raised by some in Syria about whether the pontiff's visit to the mosque is to promote interfaith tolerance or bolster Roman Catholic influence.
Robert Moynihan, editor of the monthly journal Inside The Vatican is back with us. Sounds a lot like the questions that people are raising in Greece about the Pope's visit. Why do you think he's going? What is the mission that he sees for himself there?
MOYNIHAN: Well, I think the first thing he's trying to do in a world where, if you look at it globally, Islam is vibrant and important is to show profound respect for Islam. He's visiting a country, and he's visiting the mosque. He's not condemning. He's not engaging in polemics.
He's going on a visit of personal prayer. He's visiting the Catholic community, but fundamentally he's trying to send a message of deep respect for Islam as a religion which has a profound belief in a transcendent god.
MANN: And yet he's going to a place, once again, like Greece that has long, long memories of Christian and Catholic aggression. The Crusades weigh heavily on the Arab world as well. Should we expect another apology, do you think?
MOYNIHAN: Well, I can't predict what this pope will say. But I do think that it extends the realm of his action into a sphere that people normally wouldn't expect him to be in, and the way I see this trip is touching in Greece, with great respect for the Greeks, touching an Islamic world in Damascus in visiting an important mosque, and sending then the Greek patriarch up to Moscow to speak with the Moscow patriarch.
I see it in a way touching on the external areas of Russia, and Russia a country which has a large Islamic population in the southern part of the country, I think, is watching this trip with great interest.
MANN: Pope John Paul II was the first pope, if memory serves, to enter a synagogue. In Rome, the first pope to go to Greece. He will be the first pope to enter a mosque. Many men in his exalted position did not do these things. Is him doing this, is this an obviously appropriate thing for a pope to do, do you think, to every member of the church he leads? Or is there some controversy or some question that Catholics would attach to these gestures of openness and reconciliation to other faiths?
MOYNIHAN: Well, it's absolutely right to raise that question. There certainly are Catholics who would regard the pope of Rome, the bishop of Rome as a man who should always preach first and fundamentally the central dogmas and teachings of the Catholic faith, the Christian faith. And so they feel that he is stepping out of his role as he goes into diplomatic activity.
Not so much with the Greek Orthodox because there is a precedent for profound dialogue. It has been going on now for especially the last 20 or 30 years. But to go to an Islamic country, and he's not going to not say what he believes. Certainly you are correct. Some in the Catholic Church think he is going too far, and they thought at other times in his pontificate that he'd been too public, hadn't kept the attention on the private itinerary of each individual soul, which is the core of the faith.
And yet, he's a man, I'm sure we're all aware now, who has played a historical role, and he's convinced that this needs to be done now. And I think he's a man under a deadline, and he wants to get some things accomplished before his own life comes to an end.
MANN: Robert Moynihan of Inside The Vatican, thank you so much for talking with us.
MOYNIHAN: Thank you.
MANN: The last word on this day is about another language and a place the Pope will not visit. Rym Brahimi brings us there.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RYM BRAHIMI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In a valley an hour's drive from Damascus lies a village that has an unusual attraction - its language. That's because Maaloula is one of the very few places in the world where the language of Jesus is spoken to this day. That language is Aramaic, and it's spoken by a few thousand people here and in other nearby villages just as it was when this was part of the Roman Empire.
Aramaic was the language of the Lord's Prayer and the Book of Daniel in the Old Testament. Today, it's no longer taught in school. But the villagers of Maaloula keep it alive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The Aramaic language is Maaloula's original heritage. We have preserved it by passing it on from father to son so it remains our heritage.
BRAHIMI: Thousands of tourists and Christian pilgrims from around the world visit the village every year to visit the church where (inaudible) is buried and the convent of St. Serges (ph). Most of the villagers are farmers and builders. They welcome the tourists but would cherish a visit from one man in particular - Pope John Paul II.
And they're a little disappointed that Maaloula isn't on his itinerary.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Not visiting Maaloula is like not drinking water after lunch -- approaching the fountain but never drinking. It would have been very good for the Pope to visit Maaloula.
BRAHIMI: There is no evidence that Jesus visited Maaloula, but its people say it's an important part of the Christian heritage and should have been blessed by the Pope. For now, though, they'll have to be content with less-celebrated visitors.
Rym Brahimi, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MANN: And that is INSIGHT for this day. I'm Jonathan Mann. The news continues.
END
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