chancho Member since May-16-05 This forum is for the discussion of opening procedure and strategy for: Chessgames Challenge: A Nickel vs The World, 2008

chancho has kibitzed 11405 times to chessgames   [more...]

Sep-13-08 Robert James Fischer    chancho: Margaret Court still holds the record for most singles slams, no? Graf is a close second...      Sep-12-08 Vladimir Kramnik    chancho: If Kramnik defeats Anand, (added to his other victories over Gazza and Topa) then that puts him in good company with the greats. Anything else he can manage after that is just icing on the cake.      Sep-12-08 Yifan Hou    chancho: <DCP23> Dude, you knew I was not talking about the men's world championship. But nice one anyway. :-)      Sep-12-08 Anand vs Topalov, 2008    chancho: Maybe Super Anand will show up to win this game.      Sep-11-08 Koneru Humpy   chancho: http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal...      Sep-11-08 Viswanathan Anand    chancho: Anand will be fine come October. There will be other tournaments for him to showcase his stuff. Remember when he came second to Kramnik at Dortmund and then brought his A game at the Mexico tournament? Retaining his title is his main priority.      Sep-11-08 Morphy vs A Bottin, 1858   chancho: <mindmaster> After 10...Bf8 the Black Queen is toast.      Sep-10-08 A Nickel vs The World, 2008    chancho: Voted 5...Nf6.      Sep-10-08 Topalov vs Carlsen, 2008    chancho: Good to see El Topa doing so well. A harbinger of things to come?      Sep-10-08 Spassky vs Geller, 1968   chancho: Spassky was playing great chess during his run to the title. Too bad he got kind of lazy after winning it.

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< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 73 OF 73 ·  Later Kibitzing > Aug-30-08    juanitoguate: juanitoguate: Hi everyone!! If we choose 2...Nc6, lets be prepared for 3.g3 or 3.f4: 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.g3 then play may continue: 3...g6 4.Bg2 Bg7 5.d3 d6 click for larger view We reach the first major branching point and a few comments about each variation: 6.f4 --> complex middle game arise, difficult to handle for both sides, white has to attack, reaches an ending with vulnerable queenside, bad bishop on g2 6.Be3 --> white intends to exchange dark squared bishops before deciding to play on the kingside or the queenside 6.Nge2 -->white finds it harder to attack on the kingside with the knight on e2, black has time to develop, deploy his pieces armoniously and play ...b5 6.Nh3 --> avoiding main lines and leaving the f pawn free to advance, Benko style play might unsue 6.Nf3 --> blocks the f pawn, might transpose to a fianchetto variation,the position is mainly a reversed English. If white plays 3.f4, play continues: 3...e6 (entering sharp territory) 4.Nf3 d5 5.Bb5 Nge7 click for larger view and four possible ways for black: 6.0-0 --> black may end with the bishop pair and contain play on the kingside, keeps long term prospects on the queenside, passive for white 6.Ne5 --> leads to exchanges and an easy game for black 6.Qe2 --> quite uncharted, but black seems Ok. Directed against ...a6 because of the exchange on c6 leaving the queenside damaged for black 6.exd5 --> probably best answered with 6...Nxd5 when sharp play unsues After 2...Nc6 3.f4, black can also play 3...d5 and plays solidly but many variations transpose to previously noted. Hope this helps with 2...Nc6 I am sticking with 2...a6 Aug-30-08    Hugin: 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Nge2** d6* [3...e6* 4.g3 (4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 Qc7 6.Be2 (6.Ndb5 Qb8 7.f4 a6 8.Nd4 Nf6 9.e5 Nd5 10.Nxd5 exd5 11.Nf3 Qc7 12.c3 d6) 6...a6 7.Nxc6 dxc6 8.Qd4 Nf6 9.f4 b6 10.e5 Nd5 11.Bd2 Bb7 12.0-0-0 Bc5) 4...d5 5.d3 d4 6.Nb1 Nf6 7.Bg2 Be7 8.0-0 0-0 (8...e5 9.h3 0-0 10.Nd2 Be6 11.f4 Qd6 12.Nf3 Nh5) 9.Nd2 e5 10.h3 Be6 (10...b6 11.f4 Bb7 12.Nc4 exf4) 11.f4 Qd6 12.Nf3 Nh5; 3...g6* 4.d3 (4.g3 d6 5.Bg2 Bg7 6.d3 e6 7.0-0 Nge7 8.Bg5 0-0 9.Qd2 Rb8 10.Rab1 (10.Bh6 Nd4 (10...b5 11.Bxg7 Kxg7 12.f4 Nd4) 11.Bxg7 Kxg7 12.f4 b5 (12...Qb6) ) 10...Ne5 11.b4 b6 12.bxc5 dxc5) 4...Bg7 5.Be3 Nf6 6.Bxc5 d6 7.Be3 Ng4 8.Qd2 Nxe3 9.Qxe3 Bg4 10.d4 Qa5 11.0-0-0 Rc8 12.h4 b5; 3...e5 4.Nd5 Nce7 5.Ne3 Nf6 6.Nc3 d6 7.Bc4 Nc6 8.0-0 Be6 9.d3 Be7 10.Ned5 Qd7 11.f4 Bg4 12.Qe1 Nd4; 3...Nf6* 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 d6 6.Bg5 e6 7.Bb5 (7.Qd3 Be7 8.0-0-0 0-0 9.Qg3 Nh5 10.Bxe7 Nxg3 11.Bxd8 Nxh1 12.Nxc6 bxc6) 7...Bd7 8.Bxc6 bxc6 9.Qf3 Qb6 10.0-0-0 Be7 11.Nb3 e5 12.Bxf6 gxf6] 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 Nf6 6.Bg5 e6 7.Qd2 a6 8.0-0-0 h6 9.Be3 Be7 9...Ng4 10.Nxc6 bxc6 11.Bc5 d5 12.Bxf8 Kxf8] 10.f4 [10.f3 Nxd4 11.Bxd4 (11.Qxd4) 11...b5 12.Kb1 (12.Bxf6 Bxf6) 12...Rb8 (12...Bb7) ] 10...Nxd4 [10...Bd7 11.Kb1 (11.Be2 Rc8 12.Kb1 0-0) 11...b5 12.Bd3 0-0] 11.Qxd4 [11.Bxd4 b5 12.Qe3 a) 12.Kb1 b4 (12...Bb7) ; b) 12.Bd3 0-0 (12...b4) ; 12...Bb7 (12...0-0) ] 11...b5 12.e5 [12.Be2 Bb7 13.g4 Rc8 a) 13...Qa5 14.g5 hxg5 15.fxg5 b4 16.gxf6 Bxf6 17.Qxd6 Rd8 18.Qg3 Rc8 19.Qd6 Rd8 20.Qg3 Rc8 21.Qd6 Rd8; b) 13...0-0 14.g5 hxg5 15.fxg5 Nd7 16.Kb1 Nc5 (16...Ne5 17.Rhf1) ; ] 12...dxe5 Based on a 2600 + elo book Still does not like 2..Nc6 I have a lot more on my site anyone interested can pick it up there... Aug-30-08    Hugin: Kasparov,Garry (2775) - Kramnik,Vladimir (2775) [B63] Amsterdam VSB Euwe mem Amsterdam (7), 30.03.1996 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6*** 3.Nge2** d6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 Nf6 6.Bg5 e6 7.Qd2 Be7 8.0-0-0 Nxd4 9.Qxd4 a6 10.f4 b5 11.Bxf6 gxf6 12.Bd3 Qc7 13.Qe3 Qc5 14.Qg3 b4 15.Ne2 a5 16.Kb1 Kf8 17.Qh3 h5 18.Rc1 d5?! 19.exd5 Qxd5 20.f5 a4 21.Rhe1 Rb8 22.Nf4 Qd6 23.Qf3 e5 24.Nd5 Bd8? 25.Be4 Qc5 26.c3? Qxb6 30.Rc2 Kg7 31.a3 Kh6 32.Rdd2 Bb7? 33.Bxb7 Qxb7 34.Rc6 Rhc8 35.Rxf6+ Kg5 36.Rxf7.Qxf3 37.gxf3 Rc3 38.Rg2+ Kf4? 39.f6 Rxf3 40.Re7 Rf8 41.f7 Kf5 42.Rg8 Kf6 43.Rxe5 1-0 Aug-31-08    Lutwidge: Regarding 3. Nge2 Nf6, and then 4.g3 g6 5.Bg2 Bg7 6.0–0 0–0 7.d3 d6 8.h3 Rb8 9.f4 Bd7... I've played a fair amount of Sicilians as White and I have to say that 9. ...Bd7 always struck me as awkward unless Black seriously wishes to create some sort of kingside play after, say, g4 Qc8!? via some sort of sacrifice on g4. Then again, because of the exposed Kts on f6 and c6, I'm not sure how else Black smoothly prepares b5 without Bd7. Maybe Nd4? I dunno. I guess what I'm saying is that from my admittedly non-omniscient viewpoint from the White side of this, this whole Nf6 system seems a wee bit rickety. On the other hand, if it actually does hold up well vs a direct Kingside pawn push, I do have to admit that Black's sleek "dragon" formation created by not pushing the e pawn makes it particularly difficult for White to parlay his Kingside initiative through the center and/or queenside. Aug-31-08    DanLanglois: 3. Nge2 Nf6 4. g3 d6 4. Bg2 h5 click for larger view Sep-01-08    kwid: Aug-31-08 <DanLanglois: 3. Nge2 Nf6 4. g3 d6 4. Bg2 h5> I am not a betting man otherwise I would bet that we will see Nf3 next and after Nf6 he will lead into the classical with d4. He has then succeeded with his goal to stop us from playing the Naydorf and also the Sveshnikov Sep-01-08    DanLanglois: <ChessNe1: <Tabanus: If GMAN plays 3.Bb5 I suggest we play 3...Qc7. This is what I believe the big guys would play.> i do believe you are right. that would be my choice.> ok I'll play the sceptic here. After 3. Bb5 Qc7 4. Nf3 Nf6 5. O-O e6 6. Re1 a6 7. Bxc6 dxc6 click for larger view Any Black improvements? The diagram shows that White has given up two bishops for a superior pawn structure, I take it that this is thematic? Is Black's position 'playable' (I'm underwhelmed)? My answer to 3. Bb5 is currently 3...Nd4 Sep-01-08    kwid: Qc7 seems to be playable after: <1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Bb5 Qc7 > [Event "xxx"] [Site "xxx"] [Date "xxx"] [Round "3"] [White "xxx"] [Black "xxx"] [Result "1/2-1/2"] [ECO "B30"] [WhiteElo "xxx"] [BlackElo "xxx"] [Annotator "Widmann,Kurt"] [PlyCount "58"] [EventDate "xxx"] 1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Bb5 Qc7 5. O-O (5. d3 e6 6. Bxc6 (6. O-O Be7) 6... Qxc6 7. Ne5 Qc7 8. Ng4 Be7 9. O-O O-O 10. Bg5 Nxg4 11. Qxg4 f6 12. Be3 b6 13. f4 f5 14. exf5 Rxf5 15. Ne4 Bb7 16. Rae1 Raf8) 5... Nd4 6. Re1 (6. Nxd4 cxd4 7. Nd5 Nxd5 8. exd5 Qc5 9. c4 a6 10. b4 Qxb4 11. Ba4 b5 12. cxb5 axb5 13. Bb3 g6 14. Qf3 Bb7 15. a3 Qd6) (6. Bc4 e6 7. d3 Ng4 (7... a6 8. a4 Ng4 9. g3 Nxf3+ 10. Qxf3 Ne5) 8. g3 Nxf3+ 9. Qxf3 Ne5 10. Qf4 (10. Qh5 g6 11. Qh3 a6 12. Be3 h5) 10... d6 11. Bb3 Be7 12. Qe3 O-O 13. f4 Nc6) 6... a6 7. Bf1 Ng4 8. g3 Nxf3+ 9. Qxf3 Ne5 10. Qe3 e6 11. Bg2 (11. Nd5 exd5 12. exd5 f6 13. f4 Bd6 14. fxe5 Bxe5 15. c3 O-O 16. d4 Bd6 17. Qe4 f5 18. Qf3 cxd4 19. cxd4 b5) 11... d6 12. Ne2 Be7 13. f4 Nc6 14. c3 O-O 15. d4 Bd7 (15... cxd4 16. Nxd4 Bd7) 16. d5 Na5 17. dxe6 fxe6 18. b3 Nc6 19. Bb2 Be8 20. Rad1 Bh5 21. Rd2 Bf6 22. e5 dxe5 23. Ba3 Be7 24. Bxc5 Bxc5 25. Qxc5 Bxe2 26. Rdxe2 exf4 27. gxf4 Qxf4 28. Rxe6 Rad8 29. R6e2 Qg4 1/2-1/2 Sep-01-08    kwid: Here are some book lines for < 1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Nd4> [Event "xxxx"] [Site "xxxx" [Date "2007.02.10"] [Round "?"] [White "xxxx"] [Black "xxxx"] [Result "1/2-1/2"] [ECO "B23"] [WhiteElo "xxxx"] [BlackElo "xxxx"] [Annotator "Widmann,Kurt"] [PlyCount "26"] [EventDate "xxxx"] 1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Nd4 4. Bc4 (4. Nf3 Nxb5 5. Nxb5 d6 6. d4 Nf6 7. O-O Nxe4 8. Qe2 Qb6 9. dxc5 Nxc5 10. Rd1 Be6 11. Nfd4 Bd7 12. c4 e5 13. Nc3 Be7 14. Ndb5 Bxb5 15. Nxb5 Qc6 16. Bg5 f6 17. Bd2 O-O 18. Nc3 f5 19. Nd5 Rf7 20. b4 Ne6 ) (4. Bd3 e6 5. Nf3 Ne7 6. O-O Nec6 7. b3 Be7 8. Bb2 O-O 9. Nb5 Nxb5 10. Bxb5 Qc7 11. Qe2 b6 12. d4 Nxd4 13. Nxd4 cxd4 14. Bxd4 Bb7 15. Rad1 f6 16. f3 Rac8 17. c4 Bd6 18. g3 Be7 19. Rd3 a6 20. Ba4 Bc6 21. Bxc6 Qxc6) 4... e6 5. Nge2 (5. Nf3 a6 6. d3 (6. Nxd4 cxd4 7. Ne2 d5 8. exd5 exd5 9. Bb3 d3 10. cxd3 Be6) 6... Ne7 7. O-O Nec6 8. e5 Nxf3+ 9. Qxf3 Nxe5 10. Qe2 Nc6 11. Qg4 h5 12. Qg3 h4 13. Qg4 h3 14. gxh3 b5 15. Bb3 Bb7 16. Ne4 Qh4 17. a4 c4 18. axb5 axb5 19. Rxa8+ Bxa8 20. Ba2 Qxg4+) 5... a6 6. a4 Ne7 7. O-O Nec6 8. d3 Be7 9. Nxd4 cxd4 10. Ne2 O-O 11. h3 f5 12. Bf4 g5 13. Bh2 f4 Sep-02-08    DanLanglois: <kwid: Qc7 seems to be playable after: <1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Bb5 Qc7 > 1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Bb5 Qc7 5. O-O Nd4 6. Re1 a6 7. Bf1 Ng4 .. 1/2-1/2> 7. Bc4 b5 8. Nd5 click for larger view Here, I like White? Sep-02-08    Artar1: <This post looks at White playing 3.Bb5 and Black responding with 3 Qc7, 3 e5, or 3 Nd4.> A1) 3.Bb5 Qc7 4.Nd5 Qa5 5.Nf3 Nf6 6.Nxf6+ gxf6 7.Bc4 b5 8.Bd5 Bb7 9.0–0 e6 10.Bxc6 Bxc6 11.Re1 Rg8 12.d4 cxd4 13.Nxd4 Bb7 14.Bf4 Qb6 15.Bg3 d5 16.e5 Bc5 17.c3 f5 ; A2) 3.Bb5 e5 4.d3 Bd6 5.Nge2 Nge7 6.0–0 0–0 (This sequence follows Tishin-Ikonnikov, 2005.) 7.Ng3 Bc7 8.Bc4 Nd4 9.Nd5 Nxd5 10.Bxd5 Ne6 11.Be3 d6 12.f4 exf4 13.Bxf4 Nxf4 14.Rxf4 Be6 15.Qh5 (Instead of 15.Qf3, which is an OK move.) 15...Qd7 16.Nf5 Bxf5 17.Rxf5 g6 18.Qg5 Bd8 19.Qg3 Kh8 20.Rf3 f5 21.Raf1 Bf6 22.c3 Bg7 B1) 3.Bb5 Nd4 4.Ba4 Qa5 5.Nf3 b5 (5...a6 6.e5 Now if 6...b5 then 7.Nxd4 bxa4 8.Nf3 ) 6.Nxd4 cxd4 7.Nxb5 Qxa4 8.Nc7+ Kd8 9.Nxa8 (9...Qc6 was played in Aronian-Ivanisevic, 2003, which led to a loss for Black.) 9...d3!? 10.Qf3 dxc2 11.0–0 Bb7 12.d3 Bxa8 13.Be3 Ke8 14.Rfc1 Bc6 15.b3 Qb5 16.Rxc2 Qxd3 17.Rc4 f5 18.Qxf5 Nf6 19.Qf4 g5 20.Qe5 Rg8 21.Bxa7 (An unclear and complicated position has arisen.) B2) 3.Bb5 Nd4 4.Ba4 e6 5.d3 a6 6.Nge2 b5 7.Bb3 Nxb3 8.axb3 Bb7 9.0–0 Nf6 10.f4 d5 11.e5 (Instead of 11...d4, as was played in Movsesian-Eljanov, 2005, which led to a loss for Black, ...Ng4 is worth a try.) 11...Ng4 12.d4 Nh6 13.Be3 (Black can repeat the position with ...Ng4.) 13...c4 14.bxc4 Nf5 15.Bf2 dxc4 16.d5 b4 17.Na4 Qxd5 18.Qxd5 exd5 19.Nb6 Rd8 20.Rfd1 h5 21.Ra5 Rh6 22.Nxd5 Rc6 (The position is about equal, but the game is complicated and there is much chess to be played.) B3) 3.Bb5 Nd4 4.Bc4 g6 5.Nf3 Bg7 6.Nxd4 cxd4 7.Qf3 Nh6 8.Ne2 f5 9.d3 Ng4 10.Qg3 (This sequence is from Dunis-Tirard, 2002.) 10...e6 11.exf5 Qa5+ 12.Bd2 Qxf5 13.h3 Nh6 14.Bxh6 Bxh6 15.Nxd4 Qf6 16.c3 0–0 17.0–0 Kh8 18.Ne2 d5 19.Bb3 Bd7 (Currently, White has a small advantage, but went on to lose the game.) 20.f4 a6 21.Qe3 (Playing Rae1 or Rf2/f3 might be slightly preferable than allowing a pin on the f4-pawn.) 21...Rf7 22.Rf3 Raf8 23.Raf1 Qe7 24.Nd4 Re8 25.g3 (White still holds a small advantage despite losing the game.) B41) 3.Bb5 Nd4 4.Bc4 e6 5.Nge2 Ne7 6.Nxd4 cxd4 7.Ne2 Nc6 8.0–0 Bc5 9.d3 0–0 10.Bd2 f5 11.Ng3 d5 12.Bb3 dxe4 13.dxe4 f4 14.Qh5 Bd6 15.Ne2 Rf6 (This line does not seem to be much of an improvement over 11.exf5.) B42) 3.Bb5 Nd4 4.Bc4 e6 5.Nge2 Ne7 6.Nxd4 cxd4 7.Ne2 Nc6 8.0–0 Bc5 9.d3 0–0 10.Bd2 f5 11.exf5 d5 12.Bb3 Rxf5 (Matras-Georgiev, 2001) 13.Ng3 Rf7 14.Qh5 g6 15.Qe2 Bd7 16.c4 dxc3 17.bxc3 Qh4 18.Rab1 <[18.Be3 Bd6 19.Qd2 h6 20.h3 g5 21.d4 Raf8 22.c4 Ne7 Black has kingside pressure.]> 18...Raf8 19.d4 Bd6 20.Bd1 Na5 21.Qg4 Qxg4 22.Bxg4 Bf4 (22.b5 is worth a look, and according to Fritz, it helps to maintain Black's small advantage. Offering to trade bishops balances the position.) 23.Bxf4 Rxf4 24.Be2 Kf7 25.Bd3 Ke7 (Black intends to play the king early before more pieces have left the board.) 26.f3 Kd6 27.Ne2 R4f7 28.h4 (White is still very much in the mix; White's loss cannot be blamed on poor opening play.) 28...Rc8 = B43) 3.Bb5 Nd4 4.Bc4 e6 5.Nge2 Ne7 6.Nxd4 cxd4 7.Ne2 Nc6 8.0–0 Bc5 9.d3 0–0 10.Bd2 f5 11.exf5 d5 12.Bb3 Rxf5 13.Ng3 Rf7 14.f4 Bd6 15.Qh5 g6 16.Qg4 Bd7 17.a4 Rc8 18.a5 Nb4 19.Qd1 b6 20.axb6 Qxb6 (Black may have a small advantage.) Sep-02-08    Artar1: <This post looks at White playing 3.Nf3 and Black responding with 3 e5> A) 3.Nf3 e5 4.Bc4 d6 5.d3 Be7 6.0–0 (6.Nd2 transposes into another line already covered in this analysis.) 6...Nf6 7.Ng5 0–0 8.f4 Bg4 9.Qe1 (9.Nf3 May be worth exploring.) 9...exf4 10.Bxf4 Nd4 11.Qd2 Qd7 12.a4 h6 13.Nf3 Nxf3+ 14.gxf3 Be6 15.Kh1 Kh7 16.Rae1 (This sequence follows Belikov-Frolyanov, 2006, which White won. White has possible attacking chances on the kingside.) 16...Rad8 (Instead of 16...a6, which was played in the Belikov-Frolyanov game.) <[16...Bxc4 17.dxc4 Nh5 18.Be3 Black has a weakness on d5, which allows White to post a piece there, like the knight. 18...Bh4 19.Rd1 Qh3 20.Kg1 f5 21.Qg2 Qxg2+ 22.Kxg2 ]> 17.Rg1 Nh5 18.Bb5 Qc8 19.Be3 Bf6 20.d4 cxd4 21.Bxd4 Bxd4 22.Qxd4 Qc5 23.Qd2 Qe5 24.Bd3 Kh8 25.Qe3 (White may have a slight edge.) B) 3.Nf3 e5 4.Bc4 Be7 5.d3 d6 6.Nd2 Nf6 7.Nf1 Bg4 8.f3 Be6 9.Ne3 0–0 10.0–0 Rb8 (10...a6 and 10...Ne8 are worth a look) 11.a4 Nb4 12.Ncd5 Nbxd5 13.exd5 Bd7 (This sequence is from Naidtsch-Mamedyarov, 2004 in which White won.) 14.f4 exf4 (Instead of 14...e4 that was played in the game.) 15.Rxf4 Ne8 (The knight move prevents White from sliding the rook over to g4 or h4.) 16.Rf3 f5 17.Qf1 g6 (White is attempting to mount a kingside offensive; Black's bishops are making the task difficult.) 18.c3 Bf6 19.Bd2 Ng7 (White has kingside pressure.) C) 3.Nf3 e5 4.Bc4 Be7 5.d3 d6 6.Nd2 Nf6 7.Nf1 Be6 8.Ne3 0–0 9.0–0 Nd7 (Played in Mueller-Boensch, 2002, which ended in a draw.) 10.Ned5 Nb6 11.Nxb6 axb6 12.a3 (This sequence transposes into another line already analyzed. See “E. Mueller-Boensch, 2002” below.) D) 3.Nf3 e5 4.Bc4 Be7 5.d3 d6 6.Nd2 Nf6 7.Nf1 Nd7 8.Ne3 Nb6 9.0–0 Bg5 (Mamedov-Krasenkow, 2002, which ended in a draw.) 10.Ned5 Bxc1 11.Rxc1 (11.Qxc1 Nxc4 12.dxc4 0–0 13.Qd2 Instead of 13.Ne2.) 13...f5 14.f4 Be6 15.exf5 Bxf5 16.Rf2 exf4 17.Rxf4 Qd7 18.Raf1 Bg6 19.Nb5 Rxf4 20.Nxf4 Bf7 21.Nd5 Rf8 22.Qg5 Bg6 23.Rxf8+ Kxf8 24.Qf4+ Kg8 25.Qxd6 Qe8 26.Qg3 Qe2 27.h3 Qxc4 28.Ne7+ Kh8 29.Nxc6 bxc6 30.Qb8+ Qg8 31.Qxg8+ Kxg8 32.Nxa7 Bxc2 33.Nxc6 E) 3.Nf3 e5 4.Bc4 Be7 5.d3 d6 6.Nd2 Nf6 7.Nf1 0–0 8.Ne3 Be6 (There are a number of moves that can be played at this point. This move is the most popular choice and has led to Black wins in the past.) 9.0–0 Nd7 10.Ned5 (Mueller-Boensch, 2002.) 10...Nb6 11.Nxb6 axb6 12.a3 (Instead of 12.Nd5, which led to another exchange of pieces and a draw.) 12...Nd4 13.f4 exf4 14.Bxf4 Bg5 15.Qd2 Bxf4 16.Rxf4 Qg5 17.Raf1 Bxc4 18.dxc4 Ne6 19.R4f2 Qxd2 20.Rxd2 Nd4 21.Nb5 Nxb5 22.cxb5 Rae8 23.Rxd6 Rxe4 24.Rxb6 Re7 25.Rf5 (Improvements for Black will need to be found.) F) 3.Nf3 e5 4.Bc4 Be7 5.d3 d6 6.Nd2 Nf6 7.Nf1 0–0 8.Ne3 Be6 9.0–0 a6 10.a4 Rb8 11.Bd2 Nd7 12.Ne2 <[12.Ncd5 b5 13.Nxe7+ Nxe7 14.Bxe6 fxe6 15.Qg4 Rf6 16.axb5 axb5 17.Ra6 Nb6 18.Rfa1 Nc6 19.Ba5 Nxa5 20.R1xa5 Rg6 21.Qe2 Na8 22.Ra7 White has a small advantage.]> 12...Nd4 13.a5 Bg5 14.c3 Nc6 15.b4 Bxe3 16.Bxe3 Bxc4 17.dxc4 cxb4 (This sequence follows Kosintseva-Novikov, 2004, which was won by Black.) 18.Qxd6 <[18.cxb4 may be better than what was played during the game. 18...Nxb4 19.Qxd6 Nc2 20.Rad1 Nxe3 21.fxe3 Nf6 22.Qxe5 Qe8 23.Qd4 Nxe4 24.Rf4 f5 25.Qd5+ Kh8 26.Rxf5 Rxf5 27.Qxf5 Nc3 28.Nxc3 Qxe3+ 29.Kh1 Qxc3 30.Qc5 White may have a microscopic edge, but the game will most likely end in a draw.]> Sep-02-08    kwid: Dan, I see you like 7.Bc4. What about Ng4? <1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Bb5 Qc7 5. O-O > (5. d3 e6 6. Bxc6 (6. O-O Be7) 6... Qxc6 7. Ne5 Qc7 8. Ng4 Be7 9. O-O O-O 10. Bg5 Nxg4 11. Qxg4 f6 12. Be3 b6 13. f4 f5 14. exf5 Rxf5 15. Ne4 Bb7 16. Rae1 Raf8) <5... Nd4 6. Re1> (6. Nxd4 cxd4 7. Nd5 Nxd5 8. exd5 Qc5 9. c4 a6 10. b4 Qxb4 11. Ba4 b5 12. cxb5 axb5 13. Bb3 g6 14. Qf3 Bb7 15. a3 Qd6) (6. Bc4 e6 7. d3 Ng4 (7... a6 8. a4 Ng4 9. g3 Nxf3+ 10. Qxf3 Ne5) 8. g3 Nxf3+ 9. Qxf3 Ne5 10. Qf4 (10. Qh5 g6 11. Qh3 a6 12. Be3 h5) 10... d6 11. Bb3 Be7 12. Qe3 O-O 13. f4 Nc6) <6... a6 7. Bc4> (7. Bf1 Ng4 8. g3 Nxf3+ 9. Qxf3 Ne5 10. Qe3 e6 11. Bg2 (11. Nd5 exd5 12. exd5 f6 13. f4 Bd6 14. fxe5 Bxe5 15. c3 O-O 16. d4 Bd6 17. Qe4 f5 18. Qf3 cxd4 19. cxd4 b5) 11... d6 12. Ne2 Be7 13. f4 Nc6 14. c3 O-O 15. d4 Bd7 (15... cxd4 16. Nxd4 Bd7) 16. d5 Na5 17. dxe6 fxe6 18. b3 Nc6 19. Bb2 Be8 20. Rad1 Bh5 21. Rd2 Bf6 22. e5 dxe5 23. Ba3 Be7 24. Bxc5 Bxc5 25. Qxc5 Bxe2 26. Rdxe2 exf4 27. gxf4 Qxf4 28. Rxe6 Rad8 29. R6e2 Qg4) <7... Ng4 8. e5 Nxf3+ 9. Qxf3 Nxe5 10. Qf4 f6 11. Nd5 Qd6 12. Nc3 Nxc4 13. Qxc4 b6 14. d3 e6 15. Qh4 Bb7 16. Ne4 Qc6 17. f3 Kf7 18. Qh5+ g6 19. Qh4 Be7 20. a4 d5> Sep-02-08    Ceri: Dear all. I tried a Sheveningen line 1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. Nf3 d6 4. d4 cxd4 5. Nxd4 e6 6. Be3 Nf6 7. Be2 a6 8. f4 Be7 9. O-O O-O 10. a4 Qc7 11. Kh1 Re8 12. Bf3 Bf8 13. Nb3 e5 14. f5 I was playing white with Rybka 3 as Black. Rybka has violated my Sicilian principle by playing a6 without getting in b5. So, even though Rybka has the position as almost =, I don't care much for Black's game and want something better. Cheers, Ceri Sep-02-08    Ceri: Hi, folks. I played it out, to see which of Rybka or I were right. Since Rybka got killed, it was probably I. 1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. Nf3 d6 4. d4 cxd4 5. Nxd4 e6 6. Be3 Nf6 7. Be2 a6 8. f4 Be7 9. O-O O-O 10. a4 Qc7 11. Kh1 Re8 12. Bf3 Bf8 13. Nb3 e5 14. f5 Nb4 15. a5 Bd7 16. Bb6 Qc4 17. g4 h6 18. h4 Nxc2 19. Qxc2 Ba4 20. g5 Bxb3 21. Qg2 hxg5 22. hxg5 Nd7 23. Rf2 Be7 24. f6 Bxf6 25. gxf6 Nxf6 26. Rg1 g6 27. Rgf1 Nh7 28. Bh5 Kh8 29. Rxf7 Qxf7 30. Rxf7 Bxf7 31. Bd1 Kg7 32. Qd2 and Black is dead. I will try some 3... e5 games next, although it's not my style of chess. Cheers, Ceri Sep-02-08    Domdaniel: I've mentioned the <Meszaros Variation> a couple of times on the main page, without going too far into it. Here's some more info. Four Knights Sicilian - The Meszaros Variation. After 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Nf3 Nf6, White's main moves are 4.Bb5 and 4.d4. 4.d4 transposes back into an Open Sicilian after 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 Now the Meszaros Variation is characterized by 5...Rb8. This analysis is mostly based on an article by Dimitri Reinderman in Secrets of Opening Surprises, vol 8, 2008. Reinderman: "It all started in 1992 when Meszaros wondered if Black would have a good waiting move after 5.Nc3 in the Sicilian. He wanted to be able to react flexibly on whatever setup White would play, and eventually decided that 5...Rb8 was the best waiting move." click for larger view Disadvantages: it doesn't prevent White from playing e5 after taking on c6; a7 is no longer protected by the Rook; Bf4 can come with tempo; Castling queenside is no longer possible. Advantages: after Nxc6 bxc6 the rook becomes active on the semi-open b-file; the black bishop can still go to b4 or c5 after ...e6 or ...e5; Black might be able to play ...d5 in one go; if White gets to play Nc7+ there's no rook fork. Transpositions: Sveshnikov, Dragon, Classical and Scheveningen variations can still be reached by transposition. In general, ...Rb8 is a useful move in most lines -- just as Rb1 is in equivalent Reversed positions (4 Knights English Opening). Example of a transposition: 5...Rb8 6.Be3 g6 7.Bc4 Bg7 8.f3 0-0 9.Qd2 d6 10.0-0-0 Bd7 (Sprenger-Reinderman) transposes to the Chinese Dragon. White's main choices on move 6 are: 6,Be2; 6.Bg5; 6.Nxc6; 6.Bc4; 6.Be3. Also possible: 6.g3; 6.f3; 6.f4; 6.Bf4; 6.g4; 6.a3 [etc.] - nothing critical. For example, 6.g4 Nxg4 7.Nxc6 dxc6 8.Qxd8+ Kxd8 and White has insufficient compensation for the pawn. Meszaros himself regards 6.Bc4 as the strongest. Sofia Polgar vs Meszaros, Budapest 1992, went: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 Rb8 6.Bc4 Qb6 [6...e6 7.0-0 and White threatens 8.Nxc6 and 9.e5; 7...Qc7 8.Ndb5 is good for White as the queen cannot retreat to b8] 7.Nb3 a6 8.0-0 e6 9.Bf4 e5 10.Bg5 Be7 11.a4?! [11.Nd5 is better] 0-0 12.Bxf6 Bxf6 13.Nd5 Qd8 14.a5 Bg5 15.Qd3 Kh8 16.g3?! [16.Rfd1] d6 17.f4 exf4 18.gxf4 Bh6 19.Kh1 Be6 20.Nb6 Qh4 21.Nd5 Bh3 22.Rf3 Bg4 23.Rff1 f5 24.Nd2 Rbe8 25.Nc7 fxe4 26.Nxe4? Bxf4! [black is winning] 27.Ng3 Ne5 28.Qb3 Rc8 29.Ne6 Bxg3 30.Rxf8+ Rxf8 31.Qxg3 Qxg3 32.hxg3 Rf2 33.Bd5 Bxe6 0-1. Summary: 5...Rb8 is a useful move in its own right (like Rb1 in the English). It is also a good transpositional weapon -- perhaps better suited to OTB play than to CC. But worth thinking about, if we're comfortable with the positions that may result. Sep-02-08    Domdaniel: <Ceri> - <Since Rybka got killed, it was probably I. > Heh. Very nice game. Do you happen to know at which point Rybka left its book? Sep-02-08    Domdaniel: <Ceri> Your 13...e5 is a very interesting move. The game follows very familiar lines to that point. I've found only one game with that position, from a couple of 2400 players in Budapest, 2006 - and they immediately agreed a draw on move 13. I don't think Rybka's 14.f5 was the best response. Has the line been tried elsewhere? My knowledge of the Scheveningen is casual and not up-to-date, though I think it is perfectly sound. Thanks. Sep-02-08    kwid: Sep-02-08 < Ceri:> Is your Dragon still OK? I strongly belief that we should play g6 now. Have a look at my book lines: [Event "web"] [Site "CGC"] [Date "????.??.??"] [Round "?"] [White "GMAN"] [Black "World"] [Result "1/2-1/2"] [ECO "xxx"] [PlyCount "32"] 1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. Nf3 g6 4. Bb5 (4. d4 cxd4 5. Nxd4 Bg7 6. Be3 Nf6 7. Bc4 O-O 8. Bb3 d6 9. f3 Bd7) 4... Bg7 5. Bxc6 (5. d3 Nf6 6. O-O O-O 7. Re1 d6 8. h3 Bd7 9. a4 a6 10. Bc4 e6 11. Bf4 Qb8 12. Qd2 Nd4 13. Nxd4 cxd4 14. Ne2 Rc8 15. Bb3 Qc7 16. Bh6 Qc5) 5... bxc6 (5... dxc6 6. d3 Nf6 7. h3 Nd7 8. Be3 e5 9. Qd2 Qe7 10. Bh6 Bxh6 11. Qxh6 f6 12. O-O Nf8 13. Nh4 Be6 14. f4 exf4 15. Rae1 O-O-O 16. Qxf4 c4 17. d4 g5 18. Nf5 Qd7) 6. O-O e5 7. d3 d6 8. h3 Nf6 (8... h6 9. Be3 Ne7 10. Nh2 g5 11. Ne2 Ng6 12. Ng3 Nf4 13. Nh5 Nxh5 14. Qxh5 Rb8 15. b3 Be6 16. Rae1 Qf6) 9. a3 O-O 10. b4 Rb8 11. Be3 cxb4 12. axb4 Rxb4 13. Rxa7 Rb7 14. Qa1 Qe7 15. Ra6 d5 16. Ra5 Rd8 1/2-1/2 Sep-03-08    Ceri: Rybka left it's book with 13... e5? Cheers, Ceri Sep-03-08    Ceri: Here's another game Ceri / Rybka in a 3... e5 try: 1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. Nf3 e5 4. Bc4 Be7 5. d3 Nf6 6. O-O O-O 7. a3 d6 8. Nd5 Be6 9. c3 Rb8 10.b4 Qd7 11.Be3 Ng4 12.Bd2 b5 13.Bb3 a5 14.Nxe7+ Qxe7 15.Bd5 Bd7 16.bxc5 dxc5 17.c4 bxc4 18.h3 Nf6 19.Bxc4 Rybka out of book once I played 10. b4. This position is still unclear, although Rybka prefers White by 0.44 Today I will look to see how the Dragon stands up to this move order, as Kurt asked. Cheers, Ceri Sep-03-08    Domdaniel: <Ceri> Oops, sorry. I think I looked at the opening the wrong way round. *Your* 14.f5 was strong, of course. Thanks for clarifying. It's odd how often engines make less-than-best moves at the precise point the book runs out. Sep-03-08    Ceri: Here's a Dragon where I was Black which could transpose through our current position. However, I out-rated my oppo by more than 700 points and could only draw. That's not a promising omen. I am inclining towards d6 and a Sveshnikov. Ceri 1.Nf3 c5 2.e4 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 O-O 8.Qd2 Nc6 9.Bc4 Bd7 10.O-O-O Ne5 11.Bb3 Rc8 12.h4 h5 13.Bg5 Rc5 14.Kb1 b5 15.g4 a5 16.Bxf6 Bxf6 17.gxh5 a4 18.Bd5 e6 19.hxg6 exd5 20.gxf7+ Rxf7 21.Nxd5 a3 22.Qh6 Rxd5 23.Rhg1+ Bg7 24.exd5 Qf6 25.Qxf6 Rxf6 26.f4 Rxf4 27.Ne6 Rf7 28.h5 Kh8 29.bxa3 Re7 Draw agreed 1/2-1/2 Sep-04-08    kwid: Looks like we are heading for d6. Here is some of my R/R data: [Event "xxxx"] [Site "?"] [Date "xxxx"] [Round "?"] [White "xxxx"] [Black "xxxx"] [Result "1/2-1/2"] [ECO "xxx"] [WhiteElo "xxx"] [BlackElo "2656"] [Annotator "Widmann,Kurt"] [PlyCount "86"] [EventDate "xxxx"] [EventType "blitz"] 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 d6 6. Bg5 e6 7. Qd2 a6 (7... Be7 8. O-O-O O-O 9. f4 Nxd4 10. Qxd4 Qa5 11. Bc4 Bd7 12. e5 dxe5 13. fxe5 Bc6 14. Bd2 (14. Kb1 Rad8 15. Qf4 Nh5 16. Qg4 Rxd1+ 17. Rxd1 Bxg5 18. Qxg5 Nf6) 14... Nd7 (14... Bc5 15. Qh4 Nd7 16. Rhe1 Rfc8 17. Ne4 Qd8 18. Qf4 Bxe4 19. Qxe4 Qc7 20. Bd3 g6 21. Bh6 Be7 22. Qf4 Nc5 23. c3 Rd8 24. Bc2 Rxd1+ 25. Rxd1 Rd8 26. Rxd8+ Qxd8 27. Qd2) 15. Nd5 Qd8 16. Nxe7+ Qxe7 17. Rhe1 Rfd8 18. Qg4 Nf8 19. Bd3 Rd5 20. Bb4 Qd8 21. Bd6 Ng6 22. Bc4 Rxd1+ 23. Rxd1 Qa5 24. Qe2 b5 25. Bb3 Qb6 26. g3) 8. O-O-O h6 9. Bf4 Bd7 10. Nxc6 Bxc6 11. f3 d5 12. Qe1 Bb4 13. a3 Ba5 14. Bd2 Rc8 15. Qg3 Bc7 16. e5 Nd7 17. f4 O-O 18. Bd3 Nc5 19. Be3 Nxd3+ 20. Rxd3 Bb6 21. Kb1 Bb5 22. Nxb5 axb5 23. Rhd1 (23. f5 Bxe3 24. Qxe3 exf5 25. Rhd1 Qc7 26. c3 Rfd8 27. Rxd5 Rxd5 28. Rxd5 Rd8 29. Rxb5 Qc4 30. Qc5 Qe4+ 31. Ka2 Rd1 32. Kb3 Rc1 33. Qc8+ Kh7 34. Qxb7 Qc2+ 35. Kc4 Re1 36. Qxf7 Qa4+ 37. Rb4 Re4+ 38. Kc5 Qa5+ 39. Kd6 Rxe5 40. Rc4 Rb5 41. Qc7 Qa8 42. Rc5 Rxb2 43. g3 Qa6+ 44. Rc6 Qxa3+ 45. Kd7 Qf8 46. Rd6 Rxh2 47. c4 Rc2) 23... Bxe3 24. Qxe3 Rc6 25. f5 Qh4 26. h3 Qc4 27. Qf2 Rfc8 28. R1d2 Qe4 29. Re3 Qa4 30. f6 g6 31. Rb3 Kh7 32. Rb4 Qa5 33. c3 Rc4 34. Rd4 Rxd4 35. Rxd4 Rc4 36. g4 Qc7 37. Qe3 g5 38. Kc2 Qa5 39. Qd3+ Kg8 40. Kc1 Qc7 41. Qe3 Kf8 42. Kd2 Qc5 43. Qd3 Kg8 1/2-1/2 Sep-04-08    Hugin: Lines from Hiracs 12 book. 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Nf3 d6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 e6 [5...Nf6 6.Bg5 e6 7.Qd2 a6 (7...Be7 8.0-0-0 0-0 9.f4 h6 10.Bh4 e5 11.Nf5 Bxf5 12.exf5 exf4 13.Kb1 Qa5 14.Bxf6 Bxf6 15.Nd5 Be5 16.c3 Qd8 17.Nxf4 Rb8 18.Nd3 Bf6) 8.0-0-0 h6 9.Nxc6 bxc6 10.Bf4 d5 11.Qe3 Be7 (11...Bb4 12.Be2 0-0 13.e5 Nh7 14.a3 Be7 15.h4 Qc7 16.g4 c5 17.Qg3 Bb7 18.Rh3 d4 19.Nb1 Bd5 20.g5 Kh8) 12.Be2 0-0 13.h4 Re8 14.g4 Nd7 15.Qg3 e5 16.Bd2 Nc5 17.g5 d4 18.gxh6 Bf6 19.b4 (19.Nb1 Nxe4 20.Qf3) 19...Ne6 20.Nb1 g6] 6.Be3 Be7 [6...Nf6 7.f4 Be7 8.Qf3 e5 9.Nxc6 bxc6 10.f5 Rb8 11.0-0-0 Qa5 12.Bc4 0-0 13.Bb3 Nd7 14.g4 Nc5 15.g5 Nxb3+] 7.Be2 Nf6 8.0-0 0-0 [8...Bd7 9.Nb3 a6 10.f4 b5 11.a3 0-0 12.g4 Bc8 13.Qe1 h6 14.Qf2] 9.f4 a6 10.a4 Qc7 11.Kh1 Bd7 [11...Re8 12.Bf3 Bd7 13.Nb3 Na5 14.Nxa5 Qxa5 15.Qd3 Rad8 16.Rfd1 e5] 12.Qe1 Kh8 [12...d5 13.e5 Nxd4 14.Bxd4 Ne4 15.Bd3 Nxc3] 13.Qg3 Rae8 [13...Nb4] Could some that has Rybka 3 book do the same?. 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