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Sep-07-08
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| Karpova: <whiteshark>
btw., There's only one other game involving Capablanca and Kaufmann in "The Unknown Capablanca": Hugo Fähndrich / Arthur Kaufmann - Capablanca / Tartakower, Vienna 1911.10.18 (Black wins in 45 moves, it's game Nr. 77). You may have a look at James Gilchrist's and David Hooper's "Weltgeschichte des Schachs" volume (Hamburg, 1963). But I don't know if another game involving both of them can be found in there (it's a compilation of Capa's tournament and match games). |
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Sep-07-08
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| whiteshark: Thank you very much for your research / hints, <Karpova>. Gilchrist and Hooper contain no games from Fähndrich or Kaufman. |
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Sep-08-08 |
| krippp: This does not really belong here as much as to the Maróczy page, but since it'll be a lot more likely to be answered here: In a written tribute to Maróczy (http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/...), Capablanca mentions of a match between Maróczy and the then-Hungarian-champion Géza Nagy, in which Maróczy totally destroyed Nagy. Wikipedia tells me the match ended +5-0=3, and occurred in 1927/8. Yet I can't find any games of that match.
I only found one (1) game between them, from ChessBase's Database, dated 1924, being a 39-move draw. Does anyone know where to find the games of the match? |
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Sep-09-08 |
| mjmorri: Capa's record on the white side of the Ruy Lopez is phenomenal. Has anyone else dominated an opening like this? No wonder Alekhine used the French Defense in game 1 of their 1927 match. |
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Sep-13-08
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| blacksburg: <What is the main difference of playing style between Capablanca and Rubinstein? Maybe Rubinstein was more of a "classical" player while Capa had some hypermodern flavor in his later games?> one major difference is that rubinstein did a lot of work on opening systems, while capa just aimed for a playable middlegame. rubinstein was almost singlehandedly responsible for a lot of major opening ideas - the meran system in the semi-slav, queenside castling for white in the QGD, a lot of ideas for black in the spanish, he basically put the four knights opening out of business, 4.e3 and 5.Ne2 in the nimzo-indian, the g3,Bg2 system against the tarrasch defense, etc. the only real "capablanca variation" i can think of is the freeing maneuver in the orthodox defense. the fact that capa had some "hypermodern flavor" kind of supports the idea that capa would play any opening if it was practical, while rubinstein was looking for an advantage much earlier in the game. |
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Sep-13-08 |
| Voltaic: i think Capa relied more on his talent to play any position and overplay any player, while Rubinstein as <blacksburg> hinted, had a more methodical approach to the game with a lot of contributions to chess theory. as a side note i find Rubinstein related with Ivanchuk, both with eccentric personalities and fabulous makers of new moves. |
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Sep-13-08
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| CapablancaFan: <blacksburg><one major difference is that rubinstein did a lot of work on opening systems, while capa just aimed for a playable middlegame.> Just to add to that, Capa himself said that he never even studied opening systems, he just played moves that "seemed" best at the time. In fact, if you look at most of Capa's games, one gets the feeling that he played openings on auto-pilot and only woke up once the middlegame arrived. |
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Sep-13-08
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| AnalyzeThis: Frankly, I would have done the same as Capablanca. For the vast majority of his games, he was going to win the game anyway. Why kill yourself away from the game to study openings, when you're going to win anyway? |
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Sep-13-08
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| maxi: The problem is that Capa basically could only play intuitively. He always relied on his perfect intuition, and his analytic powers were very limited. If you go thru his books and articles, you learn never to trust opinions of his not arrived at over a game. He was not spectacular in opening theory because he was a bad analyst. That is why his approach to the match with Alekhine, repeating openings and trying to improve lines analytically, was the worst one possible. This was precisely Alekhine's forte. It was the worst possible approach to the match, and you can be sure Alekhine realized this at Buenos Aires and probably dared not breathe aloud for fear of changing anything. |
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Sep-13-08 |
| RookFile: He had gotten lazy by the time of the Alekhine match, but earlier in his career, Capablanca could crunch variations and outcalculate the best of them. |
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Sep-14-08
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| blacksburg: in fact, there are examples of capa playing downright BAD moves in the opening. the most famous example is 4...Bf5? from the game Janowski vs Capablanca, 1916
after which white can gain a serious advantage with correct play. fortunately for capa, janowski failed to take advantage of this, and capa went on to win a classic game. i don't want to suggest that rubinstein never made a mistake in the opening, but i don't think rubinstein would have played 4...Bf5 without serious analysis, even this early in the game, and rubinstein certainly would have found the refutation, which is fairly simple, even for a patzer like me. i can imagine capa thinking to himself "i'm developing my queen's bishop before playing e6, how can this possibly be bad, why waste time analyzing every possible reply?" and then playing the move instantly. there are also countless examples of capa playing the steinitz defense against the ruy lopez, accepting a horribly cramped position, and then winning the game after outplaying the opponent in the middle game. modern GM's don't even consider accepting such a cramp, and the steinitz defense is a rare bird these days. ultimately, capa's weakness in the opening was offset by his genius in the middlegame against most of his opponents. it's worthwhile to remember what fischer said about capa - it wasn't his endgame technique that destroyed people, it was his brilliance in the middlegame that assured that any simplification to an endgame would be greatly in his favor. |
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Sep-14-08 |
| FHBradley: It's plain silly to speak of Capablanca's <weakness in the opening>. No doubt he was no Grünfeld, but that was only to his good. |
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Sep-14-08
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| blacksburg: i don't think it's silly to speak of capa's <weakness in the opening>. it's not that he was "weak" in the opening, like me, but certainly, some of his contemporaries were stronger opening theorists than capa. "weakness" is a subjective and relative term, after all. there are many examples of capa playing questionable openings, and winning nevertheless, but there are not a lot of examples of capa winning a game in the first 15 moves due to a homecooked novelty in some topical variation. |
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Sep-14-08 |
| visayanbraindoctor: <blacksburg: some of his contemporaries were stronger opening theorists than capa.. there are many examples of capa playing questionable openings, and winning nevertheless, but there are not a lot of examples of capa winning a game in the first 15 moves due to a homecooked novelty in some topical variation.> Unlike Alekhine and Rubinstein who prepared their openings, Capablanca was a dead lazy chess player who apparently just looked around to see what his fellow masters were playing and followed what seemed to him openings that adequately got him into a middlegame that was not obviously lost. He was not the guy to spring up novelties but more often than not the 'victim' of new openings. But when the game got into the middlegame, Capablanca was and is probably the strongest chess player in history. At his prime, he played his middlegames almost like a computer, and his endgames probably better than a computer. Just as unsound tactics don't often work against a computer, they never worked against Capablanca either, and he made a career out of destroying unsound tactics. I think he was the only chessplayer who could actually destroy opening novelties as well by strong OTB play, if the novelty did not result into a completely won position. Aside from his game with Janowski, two other famous Capablanca games were he got surprised in the opening were his games against Mieses and Marshall. Mieses vs Capablanca, 1913
Capablanca vs Marshall, 1918
Marshall would probably have creamed anybody but Capa that he surprised with the Marshall attack, but Capa was practically playing like a computer. The way Capa turned the table against a Mieses who had won the exchange against him was also computer-like. No other chess player in history probably consistently played his middlegames and endgames with so few errors as Capablanca, even in his blitz and rapid games. Since blitz and rapid games usually have the effect of making opening prep useless and force players to play virtually by their innate chess abilities, Capa was in his element in these shorter time controls. If he was far ahead of most other players in classical games, the gap between Capa and the rest of the world became a veritable Mt Everest in blitz and rapids. Capa seemed to have been the only chessplayer who won all blitz and rapid competitions he played in all the time all his life; and I do not even know if he has ever lost a blitz game. At the beginning of his international career, he was demolishing Lasker and all the other top players easily, and at the end of his career, he was eating up Reuben Fine and the rest of the top American players, in blitz and rapids. There were no large cash prizes for good blitz and rapid players during Capa's era, and so if he were living today, Capa would certainly be one happy person given all the blitz and rapid tournaments today that award large amounts of prize money. The lazy Capablanca would not even have to study openings for these tournaments because most opening prep become useless in blitz and rapids. After seeing a young Capablanca devour all opposition in blitz and rapid games, I think it was Emanuel Lasker (whose style also was characterized by minimal errors) who remarked "It is remarkable young man, that you never seem to commit a mistake." |
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Sep-14-08
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| CapablancaFan: <visayanbraindoctor><Just as unsound tactics don't often work against a computer, they never worked against Capablanca either, and he made a career out of destroying unsound tactics.> Here's an example of a game that illustrates this fact so vividly. Tartakower tries to get cute and played 9.Bxb8 knowing that Capa cannot recapture immediately. The next move Capa plays turns the whole game around! Tartakower vs Capablanca, 1924 |
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Sep-14-08 |
| visayanbraindoctor: <CapablancaFan>
Here's one game where Capa did play a prepared opening novelty at move 13 (Qf3), and completely demolished Levenfish, a strong GM who later drew Botvinnik in a match. Capablanca vs Levenfish, 1935
Unfortunately, this was more of an exception for Capa. This is in marked contrast to say Kasparov, whose winning games are typically characterized by an opening novelty, attack, mate. Yet when Capa deployed an opening novelty himself, what do we have in the game above but opening novelty, attack, mate. It could well have been Kasparov playing white here. My sense of things is that if Capa had made opening preps and novelties an integral part of his game, he would have produced many Kasparov-like games. And proceeded to get more devastating tournament results. |
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Sep-14-08
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| blacksburg: regarding capa's response to opening novelties,
i once read an account of how capablanca fell into the "monticelli trap" against euwe, losing the exchange, but nevertheless, capa went on to draw the game. apparently, capa was so unimpressed by this opening trap that he willing allowed it again, lost the exchange again, and again forced a draw. |
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Sep-14-08 |
| visayanbraindoctor: <blacksburg>
Euwe vs Capablanca, 1931
Euwe vs Capablanca, 1931
Yeah. It was during his 1931 match with soon-to-be world champion Euwe. Euwe beat Alekhine 4 years later in a WC Match. Capa (who was around 43 at that time and was suffering from a steadily worsening Hypertension) beat Euwe who was then at his prime without losing a single game. Arguably this version of Euwe was as strong as he was when he later beat Alekhine. My uncle who was a born in the 30s and still remembers the Capablanca and Alekhine era has absolutely no doubts that Alekhine was ducking Capa all throughout the late 20s and 30s. |
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Sep-15-08 |
| visayanbraindoctor: <CapablancaFan, blacksburg> To continue:
Capablanca was capable of winning against opening novelties and unsound attacks even from the world's strongest players like Alekhine. Alekhine vs Capablanca, 1914
Here Alekhine trots out his home-cooked 8. Nf5, after which Capa just plays his usual incredibly strong computer-like middlegame and proceeds to cook Alekhine's position. Alekhine vs Capablanca, 1927
Here, Alekhine springs an entirely new treatment of the QID, by proceeding to pawn storm Capablanca. Capa in turned plays like a chess machine, getting in between the weaknesses left by AAA's advancing pawns, and totally crushing AAA's attack. Apparently it was Capa's own strong middlegame play that fried AAA's attack, for Capa himself chose to play the same opening line as White against Marshall, deviating from AAA's previous home-cooking at move 10. Capablanca vs Marshall, 1929
Capa treated this opening line differently from AAA. Instead of pawn storming Marshall, he opted to play for central control, won a pawn, and then squeezed Marshall to death in an impressive display of endgame skill, a model of how to transform a pawn advantage into a win. Capablanca was certainly more than a match for Alekhine and Marshall, two of history's best chess tacticians, in the very field of tactics. IMO these latter two often got into tactical middlegame situations because of opening preps that got them into such tactical situations, but this required some homework which the lazy Capablanca would rather skip. My sense of things is that if Capablanca had prepared his openings as diligently as Alekhine, he would have been known as an untamable tactical chess monster with a hundred thousand eyes instead of a coldly calculating chess machine. Alekhine of course became Kasparov's chess model. AAA was the first chessplayer to integrate the sequence of opening novelty plus attack plus mate regularly into his games, and GKK would likewise do the same 50 years later. Capablanca however certainly could have done the same, even before AAA, had he been diligent and motivated enough. |
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Sep-15-08 |
| FHBradley: <My uncle who was a born in the 30s and still remembers the Capablanca and Alekhine era has absolutely no doubts that Alekhine was ducking Capa all throughout the late 20s and 30s.> Now we have one more witness, an almost contemporary of Capablanca and Aljechin. I think we must regard the case as closed. |
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Sep-15-08
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| ughaibu: Let's be charitable and imagine the uncle was born in 1930, that makes him five years old when Alekhine lost the title. How closely was he involved with the negotiations? |
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Sep-15-08 |
| visayanbraindoctor: <FHBradley, ughaibu> My uncle is a typical strong amateur chessplayer who may actually represent what most of the chess world is like. He was taught chess as a child. He was also a Justice of the Court of Appeals of the Philippines and a magna cum laude of the Law School of a Philippine University originally founded and run by Americans; and he has an incredible photographic memory that enables him to memorize piles of written laws verbatim. He naturally has memories of the late 30s and early 40s just before 1941 (when the Philippines was still an American colony, and we were getting news directly from the USA where Capablanca lived) when Alekhine was still the World Champion, and Capablanca was all the time trying to get a re-match. So I suspect that his views were the views of most of the Chessworld in the 1930s and 40s. For myself, I naturally incline toward his views in the Capablanca vs Alekhine WC rematch issue, but then again I'm probably biased. (Note: My uncle was just a child then, and obviously was not involved in any negotiation between Capa and AAA, but I regard his views as reflecting that of most of the chessworld of the 1930s and 1940s.) |
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Sep-15-08
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| DoctorD: "but I regard his views as reflecting that of most of the chessworld of the 1930s and 1940s." Which, if they are as correct as the views of the "chessworld" of today, could be wildly inaccurate based on all kinds of hearsay. Having "a lot of knowledge" doesn't necessarily mean "a lot of accurate knowledge". |
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Sep-15-08
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| ughaibu: Has the uncle forgotten that Alekhine offered a re-match as a way of escaping from Europe during the war? |
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Sep-15-08 |
| visayanbraindoctor: <ughaibu: Has the uncle forgotten that Alekhine offered a re-match as a way of escaping from Europe during the war?> I will have to ask him. However, he probably does not know since as a child, his impressions would have been very shallow, just that AAA was the World Champion of his favorite game, and why the heck was AAA not giving Capa (his favorite player as a child just learning chess and looking for a chess idol) a rematch. I get the impression from talking to him that a large part of the chessworld was under that impression also, in the late 1930s and 40s. (If you have chess-playing relatives who were born in the 1930s, you could also talk to them about their memories of this era.) I have only become recently aware that <Alekhine offered a re-match as a way of escaping from Europe>. From what I understand, Fine and other Jewish American players were mad at AAA for his published anti-Jewish writings and moved to block AAA from transferring to the USA. |
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