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Sep-12-04
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| Gregor Samsa Mendel: According to Burgess et al. in their book "The World's Greatest Chess Games," Geller played Kg1 to avoid back-rank mate after 27.Rxf6 Bxf6 28.Qxf6 hxg6 29.Qxg6+ Kh8 30.Bg5 R4e6 31.Bf6+ Rxf6 32. Rxf6 Re1#. With the king on g1, Re1+ is just a spite check and white wins. |
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| Sep-12-04 |
| clocked: <offramp> 27.Kg1 is played to avoid the two tactical possibilities that could possibly save blacks games. The first is the back row weakness. An example, Rxf6 Bxf6 Qxf6 hxg6 Qxg6+ Kh8 Bg5 R4e6 where Bf6+ wins if the king is not on h1. The second is the possibility of Bxg2 with check followed by a queen check. An example, Qh5 R8e6 gxh7+ Qxh7 Bxe4 Bxe4 Rxf6 Bxg2+ (a move that is not possible after Kg1) |
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Sep-12-04
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| tamar: <It is a recognition of tactical possibilities which could ruin this won position.> I don't follow how this is different than a waiting move. 27.Kg1 is not strictly necessary, but it ties up loose ends and gives the move to the opponent, with the confidence that there are no good options. There is nothing forcing about its character, but it is very strong nevertheless. A high class waiting move, what else can you call it? |
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| Sep-12-04 |
| clocked: "A move that, while not achieving anything positive, does not weaken the position." "a move which does nothing towards our plan other than change whose turn it is." "a move by one side which invokes zugzwang on the opposing side" "a move that shifts the turn to the opponent without changing anything important in the position." |
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Sep-12-04
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| tamar: Giving the move praise is fine, but objectively 27.Kg1 is protecting against phantoms when a forced win is on the board. |
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| Sep-12-04 |
| RisingChamp: Thats a bit harsh Tamar- the forced win is still on the board after Kg1.It is not bowing to ghosts as Jeremy Silman would probably put it.Why on Earth would Geller want to play some 8 move deep computer(which didnt play chess them)generated winning line which was extremely complicated instead of simply taking care of the threat and then continuing with the win.( If u found that 27 gxh7+ to 36 Rg3 line urself I salute u as a much better player than myself but I am personally sure that was a computer line.) |
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| Sep-12-04 |
| ughaibu: Computers might eventually find that white has a forced win with 1.h3 will that mean that almost all games played so far need censure? |
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| Sep-12-04 |
| clocked: <ughaibu> only if the evil computer overlord orders it to be so |
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Sep-12-04
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| tamar: It is not harsh at all, and I am not a computer overlord :-) Analyze the position guys, don't just give your views without variations. You don't need a computer to see 27. Kg1 gives away part of the advantage (it allows the partial shoring up of f6 with 27...R8e6) when there are two forced wins that are faster. 27 Qh5 also wins.
The credit goes to Geller earlier in this game. In this position many moves win. |
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| Sep-12-04 |
| clocked: <tamar> 1)I did not direct the above comment to you 2)I did give variations 3) the view that you are being too harsh does not require variations 4)the point is that neither "your" computer win nor the proper defense is obvious, Smyslov did not play R8e6, and I am pretty certain that he did analyze the position 5) yes YOU DO need a computer to see that Kg1 gives away part of the advantage 6) 27Qh5 also allows R8e6 7)the "second" "faster" 27Qh5 win is only a transposition of the first. |
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| Sep-13-04 |
| RisingChamp: Tamar listening to ur comments anyone would think that position is a piece of cake! Actually as u yourself have demonstrated a former World Champion and the best tactician in U.S.S.R as Geller was widely regarded both misplayed it.Unless you are certain you would have done better than both (in which case u would be better of battling Kaspy and Kramnik than debating with us) I still stand by my view that it is harsh,I dont think that view requires variations-I admit ur variations are correct,but I dont agree that anyone can be criticized for not finding them. |
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Sep-13-04
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| tamar: The position at move 27 is a piece of cake! I would love to have it. The win isn't all that difficult. It begins with the most obvious move on the board 27 gxh7+. Contrary to popular belief, I saw most of it myself, and only had to be helped over the hump by Shredder with the Rf3 part. After that you just follow the pins. Playing it in a crucial game against an ex world champ is harder, granted. The difficult part is guessing which defense black could play, and covering for all possibilities. That is where having a computer is invaluable. It instantly honed in on R8e6 as the only chance, although ultimately useless. That is why I speculated that Geller made a waiting move--to make Smyslov show his hand. I don't think black had any threats, and don't see how <clocked> variations could have come about without errors from White. We probably just disagree. Which is normal in chess discussions. |
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| Sep-13-04 |
| clocked: <tamar> how it begins... oh please. That sounds like the people who think they "solved" the tactics puzzle when they pick the correct first move. The very fact that the obvious move progresses to a point that you needed the computer to get over the hump proves you did not solve anything. In fact not one outstanding move 29.Rf3 but another 31.Qh3! is needed for this line to be superior to the text. How many moves ahead are we looking, how many branches? Oh yes, "a piece of cake", "isn't all that difficult". Poor blind Geller must of been in time trouble... "I don't think black had any threats, and don't see how <clocked> variations could have come about without errors from White." The move wasn't made to meet a black "threat". It was made to stregthen white's threats. If you note the post by <Gregor Samsa Mendel> you will see that my first line is exactly what Geller was considering. Obviously he would not have played Bg5 in that position. The point is that after Kg1, he can. What definition of waiting move are you using? |
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Sep-13-04
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| tamar: <clocked> I read the Burgess comment, and noticed that 27.Kg1 gives Black time to shore up f6, so that specific win doesn't work anyway. 27.Kg1 R8e6 28.Rxf6 Bxf6 29 gxh7+ only is a draw.
There has to more going on.
So while 27.Kg1 may have been made to avoid a back rank weakness, it does not set up an immediate win on f6. Had 27.Kg1 set up an immediate win, I would not call it a waiting move. Its main purpose that I could see was to transfer the move to Black while not upsetting the marvelous mechanism of pins in place. I may be wrong. That is why I asked for variations, not to pick a fight. The win after Geller's choice appears more complex against best defense. |
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| Sep-13-04 |
| clocked: Ok two more lines, 27.Kg1 R8e6
28.gxh7 Kxh7 29.Qf5+ (possible due to rook move) Kxh6 30.Qh3+ (and Kg7 is not possible due to the rook pin) Kg6 31.Qxh8 Qg7 32.Qd8 (with the renewed thematic threat of Rxf6, which is NOT possible if the king is on h1) Again, it is alot to expect white to find a move like Qd8 from the start position, but it again demonstrates the power of Kg1. 28.Rf3 Bg7 29.gxh7+ Kxh7 (the point! Black cannot play Kh8 due to? that's right, 30.Rxf6. [White cannot play this without 27.Kg1] Rxf6 31.Rxf6 Re1+ 32.Kf2 Re8 33.Bxg7+ Qxg7 34.Rg6) 30.Qf5+ (compare this to your line, Qf5+ is being played on the same move, there is no queen block, and white is not required to find Qh3) |
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Sep-13-04
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| tamar: Those are very good variations <clocked> 32 Qd8 is extra-ordinary in the first variation. That position should be studied. It leads to a slower win, but has very striking tactics. 28. Rf3 is good as well. It appears the move order on these moves is almost interchangeable. But you are correct. I see the attack on f6 is devastating. Nice work. I don't know what to call 27.Kg1 then. From what you have shown, I think it qualifies as a "creeping move", the notion of Spassky about a move which looks trivial, but which changes the variations. |
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Sep-17-04
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| tamar: Spassky referred to this game in summing up Geller: "When Geller was on song, he could crush anyone. And I always admired this thoughtfulness of his-not only the excellently played opening-this goes without saying, but the thoughtfulness of his play after it, the planning. He was a grandmaster of very high class, and he would play one or two games a year which would determine the direction that chess took in this or that opening. Such a game, for example, was his win against Smyslov in the Grunfeld Defence in the 1965 match, where he several times sacrificed his queen." As to why Geller overlooked the more direct move 27.gxh7+, I think he was focussed on his deep plan, and did not check the new situation when it came about, already having seen a win. |
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Oct-17-04
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| tamar: 14. f5! was a positional pawn sacrifice that determined how players approached the Grunfeld for years after this game. Spassky borrowed the set-up the next year against Fischer, and although Fischer prevented f5 with his own ...f5, Spassky showed that it opened up a d5 break that was also strong. Spassky vs Fischer, 1966 |
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Oct-17-04
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| tamar: After 13...b6? Panov writes "Black sows the wind and reaps the whirlwind. This move induces White to start a bold combination. The right line was still 13...Na5 14 Bd3 f5." Smyslov's previous experience in D87 had been much happier, even seeing him press a mating attack against the one tempo slower 12 h3 b6 13 f4 e6 Gligoric vs Smyslov, 1959 |
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| Dec-23-04 |
| aw1988: Simply stunning. Simply Geller. |
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Mar-28-05
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| notyetagm: Wow, tremendous game by Geller. |
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Sep-30-06
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| notyetagm: This game is very instructive in how both players defend critical second-rank squares with heavy pieces -laterally- across their second rank. Geller plays 19  f2 to defend the g2-mating focal point -laterally- across the second rank. Similarly Smyslov plays 21 ... d7 to meet threats to his f7-square -laterally- across the seventh rank. Notice how neither player places a rook -behind- the square he wishes to defend in order to defend along the file. |
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| Dec-30-06 |
| Capadiem: What Happen with 21....Be5
Greetings from Chile
Jaime
And Thanks to Master Ricardo Rodríguez |
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| Dec-31-06 |
| nescio: <Capadiem: What Happen with 21....Be5> After 21...Be5 22.dxe5 Rxd3 the squares f7 and f8 are insufficiently protected: 23.e6! (threat fxg6) fxe6 24.fxe6 with 25.Qf8+ coming up. On 23...f6 24.Ne4 should be decisive. |
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| Jan-31-09 |
| xrt999: Beautiful play by Geller, dangling his queen no less than 4 times. Each time it cant be taken, each time seemingly less so than the time beore. Finally, 31.Qxg4. Geller's queen is hanging for the last time and black is crushed. |
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sac: 24.Rcf1
