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Later Kibitzing > |
Nov-04-05
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| LIFE Master AJ: <KingG>
Please dont take offense at this.
I think - pretty strongly - that you are basing your judgement of this game on the outcome. (I have often found GM's do this. I have lost track of the number of times they give a position a "plus-over-a-line," indicating that they believed White was near winning. The simple truth is that when you come back and look at these games carefully, both sides did not play the best.) The simple truth is that this game was very badly played. 21...b4? (Maybe - '??') was a terrible move. 22.Nb5?! was also wrong, and missed a simple win. (I think I already covered this.) 22...Bxb2+?? turned what could have been (nearly) a won game, into a lost one. I will endeavor to try to have the web page (for my November, 2005 "Game of The Month") on the 15th, this is usually when I post. However, the game itself (Leko-Topalov) could take a long time to format ... its pretty long. But I do promise, when the game is finished, to post my analysis for the whole world to see and inspect. In the meantime ... may I respectfully suggest that you download the "games considered file" for October? I would appreciate your comments on this work - you obviously have a strong interest in complicated analysis. (But - PLEASE - post comments for Ivanchuk-Volkov on the correct page, and not here!) Is this too much to ask?
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Nov-04-05
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| KingG: <LMAJ> I don't take offence, and i'm eagerly awaiting your analysis. But i guess i'll just have to wait until the 15th.(although i'm a bit confused by your reference to Leko-Topalov). However, i don't agree that i'm basing my assessement of this game on the outcome. It's clear that, as you say, 21...b4? is a mistake that went unpunished with 22 Nb5?!. When i said that 20. Bb5! was winning, i was basing that on my own analysis and not on the rather imprecise play of this game. As you are unwilling to post anything detailed until you publish your analysis on your website, i guess we'll have to wait before comparing our respective analysis. I'll take a look at Ivanchuk-Volkov, and if the game strikes me as been interesting, i'll let you know what i think. However, please understand that whatever comments i may make about that game(or indeed, this one) are not with the aim of criticising your analysis, but just of making constructive comments. As you point out on your website, even Kasparov can make mistakes, so no one is immune. |
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| Nov-04-05 |
| Notes: How about 32.c4? |
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Nov-04-05
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| KingG: <Notes> 32 c4? bxc3+ 33 Kxc3 Bxa2 = |
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Nov-04-05
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| LIFE Master AJ: To explain ...
Leko - Topalov; (San Luis, ARG, 2005) will be my "Game of The Month" for November, 2005. (My "Game of The Month" website is at http://www.geocities.com/TheGOTMman....) Every month, (in my column) I try to annotate at least one (extra) game. Its part of the "games considered file" that is offered EVERY month now!!! This game - will be part of the download for November, 2005. If you would like to see what this looks like, you should go to the October Game of The Month, and download the file for that month. (You must have a ChessBase product to be able to read this file. The free CB Lite may also work, but I have received conflicting reports about the veracity of this. To be sure get Fritz 8 or 9. Not only is it a fantastic program, I have hundreds of downloads on my various websites that are free that you can look at.) |
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| Nov-11-05 |
| Hesam7: <Resignation Trap: It does look natural! The late Lembit Oll tried 14...Bc5 against Kari Pulkkinen at an open tournament in Helsinki in 1990. It went: 15.Rd2 Qc7 16.gxf6 Nxf6 17.Bc4 Be7 18.Bb3 0-0 19.Re1 Kh8 20.Qe3 Bd8 21.Qd4 Bxf5 22.Re5 Bg6 23.Nd5 Qd6 24.f4 Rc8 25.f5 Bh5 26.Rg2 Bf3 27.Rg3 Bxd5 28.Bxd5 Bb6 0-1> I ran Fruit after 14. Rxd4. Here is the result:
14... Bc5 15. Rd2 Qc7 16. gxf6 Nxf6 17. Nd5 Nxd5 18. Rxd5 Rg8 19. Qe4 Be7 20. f6 Be6 21. fxe7 Bxd5 22. Qxd5 Qxe7 23. Bc4 Rd8 24. Qf3 b5 25. Bd3 Qe6 26. Bxh7 (eval: -0.47) Depth: 18
5147M nodes
683K nodes/sec |
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Nov-12-05
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| LIFE Master AJ: <Hesam7>
Pulkkinen was rated 2285, while Oll was 2570. A bit of a mismatch, don't you think?[Event "Helsinki SKF op"]
[Site "Helsinki"]
[Date "1990.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Pulkkinen, Kari"]
[Black "Oll, Lembit"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "B81"]
[WhiteElo "2285"]
[BlackElo "2570"]
[PlyCount "56"]
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 Nf6 4. Nc3 cxd4 5. Nxd4 a6 6. Be3 e6 7. g4 e5 8. Nf5 g6 9. g5 gxf5 10. exf5 d5 11. Qf3 d4 12. O-O-O Nbd7 13. Bxd4 exd4 14. Rxd4 Bc5 15. Rd2 Qc7 16. gxf6 Nxf6 17. Bc4 Be7 18. Bb3 O-O 19. Re1 Kh8 20. Qe3 Bd8 21. Qd4 Bxf5 22. Re5 Bg6 23. Nd5 Qd6 24. f4 Rc8 25. f5 Bh5 26. Rg2 Bf3 27. Rg3 Bxd5 28. Bxd5 Bb6 0-1 |
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Nov-12-05
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| LIFE Master AJ: A game where White wins one.
[Event "CZE-chT2c 9596"]
[Site "Czechia"]
[Date "1995.??.??"]
[Round "10"]
[White "Firt, Stanislav"]
[Black "Sobek, Jaroslav"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B81"]
[WhiteElo "2390"]
[BlackElo "2290"]
[PlyCount "107"]
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. Be3 e6 7. g4 e5 8. Nf5 g6 9. g5 gxf5 10. exf5 d5 11. Qf3 d4 12. O-O-O Nbd7 13. Bxd4 exd4 14. Rxd4 Bc5 15. Rd2 O-O 16. gxf6 Qxf6 17. Rg1+ Kh8 18. Ne4 Qe7 19. f6 Nxf6 20. Nxc5 Bg4 21. Qe3 Rae8 22. Qxe7 Rxe7 23. Bg2 Bc8 24. Bf3 b6 25. Rd6 bxc5 26. Rxf6 Be6 27. Rf4 Rb8 28. Ra4 Rb6 29. Be2 Bxa2 30. Bxa6 Be6 31. Bd3 Rb8 32. Rg5 Rc7 33. b3 f6 34. Rg3 Bg8 35. Rf4 Rf8 36. Kb2 Be6 37. Kc3 Rg7 38. Re4 Bd5 39. Rxg7 Kxg7 40. Rg4+ Kh8 41. Rh4 f5 42. Rf4 Be6 43. Bc4 Bd7 44. Bd5 Kg7 45. Rh4 Kg6 46. Kc4 h6 47. f4 Re8 48. Rh3 Re2 49. c3 Rf2 50. Kxc5 Rxf4 51. Kd6 Bb5 52. c4 Ba6 53. Rg3+ Kf6 54. Rg8 1-0 |
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Nov-12-05
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| LIFE Master AJ: After 14...Bc5; (in the above line); there are something like 5-10 games in the whole of the database. As far as I can tell, NONE of these are a "GM-vs.GM" matchup. So it looks like more testing is definitely needed. |
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Nov-12-05
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| chancho: <AJ> How do you to overcome The point difference, when you play higher rated players? |
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| Nov-13-05 |
| Hesam7: <LIFE Master AJ: <Hesam7>
Pulkkinen was rated 2285, while Oll was 2570. A bit of a mismatch, don't you think?> Thank you for the information, before using my engine some days after the game was played I thought 14... Bc5 was a better choice for balck. As I have posted my engine supports this idea. Do you have any suggestions for black's 14th move? |
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Nov-13-05
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| LIFE Master AJ: <Hesam7>
My engines also indicate that 14...Bc5; is BOTH playable and interesting! Although I did not save all of my work, I went some 20 moves deep at one point. [Unclear?] I would say - as a hunch - that no GM has yet played this move because they felt that their Bishop was needed on the Kingside in order to guard the dark squares. (OR ... maybe no GM has yet seriously considered the play, 14...Bc5!? for Black?) I would say it is obvious - since there are only a handful of games in this line, and NO "GM-vs.-GM" contests in the database - that more testing is needed! (We can only hope that some prominent GM will play this line against Judit ... and then we can make some conclusions about the real worth of these lines.) I hate to sound vague, but this is just all a fancy way of saying, "I'm not really sure." Sorry I can't be more precise. But I hesitate to jump to a premature conclusion. Maybe when we have 20 to 30 master-level games with 14...Bc5; (and a few GM's have played the Black side) ... we will be able to make a more precise determination about the worth of 14...Bc5. |
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Nov-17-05
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| KingG: <LMAJ> Have you finished your analysis of this game yet? |
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Nov-20-05
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| KingG: Strange, a load of posts seem to have disappeared from this page. Anyway, the Great Goldsby's analysis is finally up on his website(in the form of a downloadable file). So these are the fruits of AJ's analysis: after 20...Qxe8, AJ analyses the position to a completely winning position for White(it took me about 30 minutes to reach the same conclusion), with Fritz giving  6.43, which bizarrely AJ evaluates as  . But after 20...Kxe8(the inferior move according to AJ), he analyses it to a position where White has  + +5pawns vs Black's 2+3pawns. AJ says that he considers this a matter of technique to win this position.(Fritz gives  0.57). Well, given the choice between two positions, one where Fritz gives +6, and the other where it gives +0.6, i know which one i would rather have. Note AJ's earlier post where he calls 20...Kxe8 'vastly inferior', and 'after 21.Nd5 White is winning very easily'. The analysis i(not to mention many other much greater players than me) have done of Polgar's 20.Bb5!!, shows that it is completely winning, so i find AJ's assertion that his move is better than Polgar's slightly bizarre to say the least. |
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Nov-20-05
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| KingG: Following on from the above post, it turns out that even in even the line that AJ gave that leads to an endgame advantage for White can in fact be improved on. The line AJ gives in his analysis is: 20.Rxe8+ Kxe8 21.Nd5 Qc5 22.Rxg7 Bxf5 23.Rg3 Rd8 24.c4 Be6 25.b4 Qd6 26.Qc3 Rf8 27.Bg2 Bxd5 28.Bxd5 Rd7 29.Re3+ Kd8 30.Bxb7, which Fritz evaluates as , but Golsby seems to think is . Anyway, i think Black can do better than 24...Be6?!, with 24...Kd7! 25.Bg2 Kc8. The idea is simply to evacuate the King to the Queenside where it will be safer, and then Black has a decent game. I'll give a few diagrams to illustrate the possible outcomes. This is the outcome of the line i give
click for larger viewThis is the outcome of AJ's line
click for larger view |
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Nov-20-05
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| KingG: Either of the two lines seem preferable to a completely lost game(which you would get after AJ's 20...Qxe8), but AJ seems to think that that they are both inferior. If anyone can explain this to me, i would be very grateful. |
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Dec-25-05
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| LIFE Master AJ: This game - and its analysis - continues to generate e-mail. |
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| Jan-19-06 |
| THE pawn: <KingG> You're right, he's wrong. |
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| Mar-16-06 |
| MorphyMatt: The engame looks like Karpov vs Kasparov, 1984 |
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| Apr-08-07 |
| jmrulez2004: you know what..it doesnt care whose right or wrong..its about being able to play like those geniuses out there:) |
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May-17-07
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| aazqua: THis is absurd. If you aren't going to keep the knight, you can't play this line as black. You give up way to much initiative not to have a material edge. |
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May-17-07
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| aazqua: Judit's looking awfully pudgy in this picture. Was she pregnant or something? It's a bad day when you play second fiddle to Kasmin in the looks department. |
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Jun-03-08
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| arsen387: I understood completely nothing from middlegame, but the endgame was nice :) |
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Aug-06-09
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| Winter: All's Well That Ends Well... |
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Aug-20-09
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| Knight13: <22...Bxb2+?? turned what could have been (nearly) a won game, into a lost one.> How? It seems forced to me. |
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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 6 OF 6 ·
Later Kibitzing > |
sac: 9.g5
