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Aug-30-08 |
| myschkin: . . .
"Alekhine's death – an unresolved mystery?"
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail...
(by Frederic Friedel)
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Aug-30-08
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| ughaibu: Isn't the policy to have a player's most recent picture? |
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Sep-01-08 |
| FHBradley: For my part, I definitely prefer a picture of Aljechin when he was young and vigorous to one where he is seen dead, but that may be just my personal idiosyncrasy. |
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Sep-03-08 |
| mjmorri: <Calli><Fischer's various opinions from that and other articles (Lasker was a coffee house player etc.) now recirculate endlessly. He was 21 years old and younger when these opinions were written. They were bold and rash as teenage opinions often are ( A Bust to the King's Gambit!). Personally, I don't take them too seriously. It would be interesting to know his evaluation of historical figures at age 40.> Fischer: "I don't play old chess...but obviously if I did, I would be the best." Does this pass for an evaluation of a historical figure at (after) age 40? |
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Sep-03-08 |
| RookFile: Fischer said that Reshevsky was the best in the 1950's, when he was in his 40's. |
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Sep-03-08
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| Calli: <mjmorri> I was referring to Fischer being older not the player he talked about. <Rookfile>'s comment is what I meant. (Source?) |
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Sep-03-08 |
| RookFile: http://www.academicchess.org/Focus/... Check out his comments on Reshevsky. |
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Sep-03-08 |
| parisattack: <myschkin: . . . "Alekhine's death – an unresolved mystery?"> The famous 'death photo' of Alekhine has always looked staged to me...very orderly for a fellow who choked on a piece of meat for - most likely - several minutes. Alekhine's games seem to be under a cloud with the current generation. I recall him as many players' favorite back in the 60s-70s. Perhaps Kasparov has eclipsed him for attacking play but not for native genius and panache! |
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Sep-11-08 |
| visayanbraindoctor: <boz:
When I found him dead I thought of Alekhine. No chessboard, though. The TV was on. That was a long time ago.myschkin: . . .
"Alekhine's death – an unresolved mystery?"
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail...
(by Frederic Friedel)>
I see dead people. All the time.
Joking aside, the picture of Alekhine's body in a sitting position looks contrived. When a patient becomes unconscious from a stroke or heart attack, they fall to the floor. Always. (At least I have never heard otherwise.) They don't remain sitting peacefully on chairs. And what about choking to death? That's really weird. The only patients I have seen that actually choked (or aspirated) to death immediately in front of my eyes are those with strokes or injuries involving their brainstem, which impairs their gag reflex. Even an unconscious person gags and coughs, usually throwing out whatever is blocking their airway; and thus does not die immediately. I have heard of news about this or that person choking to death, but I always suspect that such persons have some other medical illnesses that for some reason impairs their gag reflex. (If pushed, I would say anything is possible and there probably have indeed been very rare cases of a healthy person choking to death.) Even for the sake of argument, a conscious person with an intact and functioning brainstem and gag reflex chokes to death, he would struggle. He certainly would not end up in a 'calmly' sitting position. The first time I saw that picture, the first thing that came to my mind was "Why would some one arrange Alekhine's body in a sitting position? |
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Sep-11-08
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| boz: <visayanbraindoctor> I'm sure what you say is true. I know you speak from experience. It does seem improbable that a man who was choking to death wouldn't pitch to the ground. But if the photograph is staged, what was the motive? A valuable photograph? Murder? As for heart attacks, I must tell you that the man I found (from the post you quoted) was sitting on a sofa with his chin on his chest as if he had fallen asleep watching TV. His fingertips were purple though. I was told it was a heart attack. |
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Sep-11-08 |
| visayanbraindoctor: <boz: As for heart attacks, I must tell you that the man I found (from the post you quoted) was sitting on a sofa with his chin on his chest as if he had fallen asleep watching TV. His fingertips were purple though. I was told it was a heart attack.> Was he half sitting and half lying down?
If he were mostly sitting, then he would indeed be a very rare case. From what I have heard from relatives, a patient who loses consciousness tends to sag down to a fully reclining or half reclining position. Were his fingers also swollen aside from being cyanotic? He could have died of a congestive heart failure (CHF). In such cases, a patient develops difficulty of breathing; not enough oxygen gets transported to their tissues. Such patients may tend to elevate their upper torso to ease breathing, in a kind of sitting position. In such cases, the scenario you described seems feasible. However, the 'heart attack' which is called acute myocardial infarction (AMI) usually develops fast, commencing with severe chest pains (angina pectoris). The patient would tend to struggle about, and so chances for dying in a sitting position probably would be much less than in a 'heart attack' that is caused by CHF. |
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Sep-11-08 |
| visayanbraindoctor: <boz: I'm sure what you say is true. I know you speak from experience. It does seem improbable that a man who was choking to death wouldn't pitch to the ground. But if the photograph is staged, what was the motive? A valuable photograph? Murder> Now that is interesting. Why?
The picture looks totally staged, with the food in front of him and a chessboard, arranged very neatly. I really doubt if he died of a stroke. Most stroke patients who die suddenly actually die of what is termed as herniation, wherein successive parts of the brain get compressed by an expanding hemorrhage. As this happens, the body undergoes reflex posturing (or contortions), and so would tend to fall down. An embolic or thrombo-embolic infarct or even a thrombotic infarct located right in the brainstem could also cause sudden loss of consciousness, but for some reason, every story I have heard of from relatives says that the patient was either found lying unarousable in bed/sofa in some lying down or reclining position, and not sitting up. Whatever really happened, poor Alekhine's body seemed to have been 'arranged'. |
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Sep-11-08
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| boz: <visayanbraindoctor> Well, I didn't examine him. In fact, I got out of there as fast as I could. Definitely not half lying down. Slumped but still sitting. Funny thing. The old man (Reg was his name) was getting a little paranoid in his last years. A few days before he died he told me somebody had tried to break into his room while he was in bed. The locks were cheap so he was afraid this guy might come back and smash the door in. To set his mind at ease I rigged up a barricade made of two-by-fours that he could set in postion when he went to bed. It worked. That's why when the boss called me to say that Reg hadn't been seen for 24 hours and that he'd been banging on the door and trying to open it with a key but couldn't, I knew Reg was barricaded in the room. First thing I thought was suicide. That's when I went to get the ladder. |
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Sep-11-08 |
| visayanbraindoctor: <boz: Definitely not half lying down. Slumped but still sitting.> So it's possible then, for a patient to die in a sitting position. As for Alekhine 'choking', I can't imagine him allowing himself to choke to death without struggling around. |
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Sep-11-08
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| timhortons: ist time i learn of alekhine dying these way, who must have a motive of arrainging his position to such posture,<visayanbraindoctor> he must have just died when they put him in such position other wise if rigor mortis already sits in they couldnt. So let say upon his death when they could still position his limbs the way they want they right away put him in a sitting position.So those guys probably are around him before he die and for them to concoct these idea is strange. |
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Sep-11-08 |
| visayanbraindoctor: <timhortons> Smells suspiciously of murder and an attempted cover-up. |
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Sep-11-08 |
| visayanbraindoctor: <boz: <visayanbraindoctor> It does seem improbable that a man who was choking to death wouldn't pitch to the ground. But if the photograph is staged, what was the motive? A valuable photograph? Murder?> If true, that would mean that Alekhine is the first chess World Champion to have been murdered. (Hopefully, GKK would not push his luck too far and be the second. The next flying p___s could contain a real bomb.) |
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Sep-11-08
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| timhortons: the picture show alekhine wearing his coat and did he finished all the food in the table if indeed his eating by the time he choke on the food? having a meal with that bulky coat on?
The chair is large enough to accomodate his body for him not to drop to the floor.<visayanbraindoctor> i remember one patient of mine while im at iloilo doctors hospital, his watching tv and talking to me when all of a sudden he drop dead, , defibrallator did correct the cardiac ryhtm but he just live for another week in the intensive care unit and died. I experience that just before the era of advance cardiac life support was introduced. |
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Sep-11-08 |
| visayanbraindoctor: <timhortons>
Happened two times to me, drastically. In each case, there was a cerebellum pressing on the brainstem. One was a cerebellar abscess, the other a cerebellar tumor. The patients were talking to me, then they just died. Kind of dropped dead, their last sentences incomplete. Naturally I immediately took the VS - and they were an immediate BP 0 HR 0 RR 0. Brainstem (medulla) compression when a cerebellar tonsil herniates through the foramen magnum could cause such a thing to happen. Perhaps, if they were in AAA's chair, they could arguably be in that posture. However, choking to death in a conscious patient without signs of struggle seems just incredible. IMO this was a staged picture. |
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Sep-11-08 |
| visayanbraindoctor: <boz, timhortons>
Hhmmm, seems most of the food is gone. Nevertheless, the notion that he vomited and aspirated to death without signs of struggle doesn't make sense. Heck some people must have arranged this scene, and took a picture of it. |
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Sep-11-08
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| boz: <having a meal with that bulky coat on?> He died March 25, 1946. It could be very cold in rooms like that. I wouldn't be surprised if he slept in that coat too. I recall a period in my life when I didn't remove my coat for about a month. Don't ask... |
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Sep-11-08 |
| visayanbraindoctor: I would appreciate it if you have some theories. Right now, I will be signing out. |
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Sep-11-08
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| boz: Without a motive or any evidence, I have no theories. |
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Sep-11-08
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| timhortons: no theories either:) no wonder fischer is fearfull of getting killed:lolz, im not trolling here,all of them are in fischers page:) |
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Sep-11-08
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| timhortons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M74d...
i got these from youtube, i dont know if these was posted here before but nevertheless i just want to share it. |
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