Who are darker, Greeks, Spaniards or Italians?

My experience has been that Greeks are the darkest, then Southern Italians and Sicilians, then Spaniards from the South, and the lightest seem to be Northern Italians and Northern Spaniards.

Northern Spaniards are mostly Celts and Visigoths decented. From my experience Central and Northern Spaniards and Northern Italians are the lightest. Well, there just white. Southern Spaniards and Southern Italians are also white but you will see many with dark hair and fair skin but. Greeks are most dark haired people but white looking. Then you have many imigrants in Italy and Spain from Africa or Latin America.. But not as much as in the USA.

I'd say going by averages, Greeks are the darkest, followed by southern Italians (mainly Sicilians and Calabrians) and southern Iberians (Spaniards from Andalusia and Portuguese from Algarve) being pretty much the same, and then northern Italians and northern Iberians being the lightest. Northern Italians in particular are often physically indistinguishable from a normal Frenchman or German.

All of the above groups are what we'd call "white," but it's just that the southernmost regions of Europe are part of the Mediterranean world. As to why Greeks are the darkest in my experience, it probably has to do with their extreme southeastern positioning in Europe, which precluded migrations of northern Europeans (i.e. Celts and Germanic peoples) into Greece in numbers as large as in Italy or Spain.

Thus, the Greeks may be said to be more uniformly Mediterranean in appearance than either the Italians or Spaniards. For the record though, southern Italians have a heavy genetic contribution from the Greeks. The normal look in either region is dark brown/black hair, hazel to brown eyes, pale skin that generally tans well (not pale like a typical Irishman but what I'd call "brunet white"), and just typical Greco-Roman facial features (sharp facial relief, etc.) People are also generally not as tall as northern Europeans, with the average height being around 5'8"-5'10" for males.

As for the southern Iberians, they share the same coloring as the southern Italians and Greeks, but they do tend to be somewhat taller and thinner on average in my experience.

Instereting post. Being a souther spaniard(spanish) and southern italian mix I would tend to agree mostly with what everyone said, howevera couple of additions. Southern Spaniards(Iberians) as some Soouthern Italians have the moorish add mixture to their DNA, so they can tend to be much darker even brown compared to italians. I would say most Greeks could be much darker. But there are spanish and italians that are not immigrants from other lands that are dark complexion.

^That's true, but if we're talking about the Moorish admixture in southern Italians and Iberians, then we could also add in some Turkish admixture in Greeks. For example in Sicily, which was the only Italian region that was occupied by the Moors for circa 250 years or so, most people aren't as dark as a typical North African Arab. This is also because North Africa would later receive a substantial influx of sub-Saharan African slaves in the following centuries, where many were absorbed into the local populations, hence the darker skin, curlier hair, and other features that suggest sub-Saharan admixture in many Moroccans, Tunisians, etc.

Plus, many of the Moors in both Iberia and Sicily were later expelled or left those lands voluntarily. This also served to lessen the degree of genetic contribution from North Africa. In Sicily's case, the Normans conquered the island in 1071 or so, which later ushered in a period of substantial immigration from the Italian mainland and from France, who largely replaced the Arab inhabitants who simultaneously left or were being expelled. Other Arabs however did remain and convert to Christianity, where they were absorbed into the Sicilian population, hence the admixture.

In Iberia, a similar phenomenon occurred. After Ferdinand and Isabella completed the Reconquista, Spain was largely repopulated from the north as many of the Arabs were being expelled or voluntarily leaving increasingly Christian land. As in Sicily, some of the Arabs remained and converted, especially in Andalusia and Algarve in Portugal.

As for Turkish ancestry in Greeks, although I don't know nearly as much about this, from what I understand, many Turks settled in Greece when it was under Ottoman control, leading to some assimilation into the Greek population when Greece became independent. Still, the average Greek is certainly a bit fairer and more European-looking than a typical Turk, who is more Middle Eastern in appearance. Again, much of why Greeks tend to be darker may also be explained through the fact that Greece received less immigration from Germanic groups and Celts, which both Italy and Iberia received.

Actually, since i've been to all three countries i think i can express slightly a more objective opinion on the matter.Myself,i'm greek,from northern greece.

The darkest populations in europe is southern italians & spaniards ,not greeks by any means. Yet northern italians are indeed more fair compared to their southern brothers since migrations of germanic tribes took place (The same goes for spain,yet greece as well for the following reason). On the other hand, slavic tribes did reach as south as peloponnese on the greek peninsula and that was since the 6th century.Also there were celtic tribes in Anatolia (asia minor. territory Gallia in particular),celts who probably mingled as well with ancient greek colonists through the centuries.Not to mention the pre-ottoman albanians who were also settlers on hellenic soil once at the territory of Athens.
All these populations, Greeks,Albanians,Slavs,Celts are and were indo-european & pure white in their true origin.

Greece on the other hand was never conquered and was never subjugated by moors.hence why it isn't as dark as the southern italians and spaniards for that matter.

As for the turks, i can't deny they must have contributed somehow to the modern greek DNA though it's not so likely to have influenced it much for the reason that they weren't the kind of settlers that moors were. Turks settled in asia minor and only mingled with hellenes they would convert to islam,(they were really religious peoples and tolerant when it came to religion).That's how nowadays you see white european looking turks. They are part greek ;)

In a few words,it's wrong to say that one of these three nations are darker than the other.Differences are not big at all.
All three of them are as fair and as dark.
The average complexion is the same.

Greetings

hm,forgive my lame english above ;)

a correction, Gallia = Galatia *

I honestly would say that, on average, the order would probably be:

1)Greeks (darkest)
2)Spaniards
3)Italians (lightest)

People forget about Northern Italians. The American media tends to expose people to Southern Italians and Sicilians through mafia movies. Northern Italians are often very very white, with Blonde hair, blue eyes and pale skin.

This is a response to Crazy Al
http://dienekes.50webs.com/arp/articles/helle...

Greeks might be Mediterraneans but they are also Balkanites, a region with tall people.
Greeks seem to be the tallest of all the Southern Europeans including the French, with their average height being comparable to that of the Northen Frenchmen and the Southern Germans.
Who cares who is the darkest, as we are taller than you....

also....
http://www.thegreatsleep.com/height.htm

LOL Iberians, especially the Portugese are midgets compared to the new generation of above 5ft'10 inch Greeks who have the stature of northern Europeans.
This must be hard evidence of the Alpine/Dinaric heritage of the Greeks.
Who cares if we could be insignificantly darker than Italians or Spaniard anyway, we live in a more Southern country and because evolution is ongoing we developed a skin tone to suit our environment. Being pale is a sign of weakness, it means you can't take the heat.

It's just annoying when northerners say that Mediterranean people like Italians and Spaniards are short, and ignorantly manage to fit Greeks into that stereotype.
We have to put up with this negative stereotype thanks to you shorties!

Northen italian are as tall as greeks but are not as ugly as greeks.
Eric

who cares if the greeks are 1 or 2 cm taller than the spaniards...the spaniards are a few cm bigger than the greek men in other parts of their anatomy...i can assure you(women talk a lot you know and tell the truth too)...i am a young lady from greece and my boyfriend is spanish...i have been to spain a lot of times and stayed long enough to observe that there is no big difference regarding the colour of the skin between greeks and spaniards but some spaniards tend to have lighter hair and eye colour than the greeks...as for the italians i think than those from the north tend to have a similar skin colour than greeks/spaniards but much lighter hair/eye colour...whereas the southerns tend to have dark eyes/hair...Concluding i would say that greeks/spaniards/italians have similar complexions some difference can be found mostly in hair and eye colour

The meixcans

Here is another link that might be of interest.

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres...

Again you can see a substantial difference between
Greeks/Italians with Spaniards/Portuguese.

Overall I really thinK...

Spaniards/Portuguese (DARKEST)

Greeks/Italians (LIGHTEST)

Spaniards are the darkest from my holiday experiences in all three countries.

As an Italian that happen to be anthropologist I can tell that:
Italian overall are the darkest (yes in northern Italy there are few lighter elements, yet norther italians are dark in the majority and can find very brunette skinned pure milanese or northern italians)
Spaniards and portuguese close second
Greek the lightest.
Anyhow the differences are really minor all three populations really look like each other and you can easily mix them up.
Even many turks can be mistaken for greek italians or iberians.

"Giuseppe" your name explain it all...
Northern italians are not as dark as southerners,if you took a 100 people from North Italy and 100 from South Italy,you will see the difference.
North italians are by far fairer than the south's ones.
Moreover we are not at all the darkest between spaniards and greeks.
I found greeks very fair,and spaniards on average darker than italians.

northern italians and greeks the tallest.
Then Spaniards and portuguese.

northern italians the lightest (hair & eyes) then for eyes the greeks, then the portuguese and the last the spaniards.
The same for hair but spaniards slightly lighter than the others.
The darkest and shortest (with portugueses) are the southern italians.

Eric